Lets Discuss rationaly some of the things up on board RULES

Here is what ive gotten so far and still need some input on here for Ralph to see or hear.

1 first rumor was clamped classes well here is skippy on that.

Okay so one of the rumors about clamped classesis a rumor it will beclamped at regional and finals to make sure amps are right not to determine classes... So i like that idea as long as it doesn't add 3 hours to the show and usaci has the man power to do it... Good job and effort.. Only thing is cheaters will find a way to hide an amp you cant clamp im sure cheaters will always figure a way...
2 the other harsh rumor was no more prostock.

IT IS A RUMOR . It will be allowed to remove panels in ext cab trucks as well as back seat so they can play as long as below window line.... Thats kewl too should also mae it to where vans with half walls can join too..... Good in my book as well

3. Is that they are not going to have unlimitted anymore .... grrrr


VOICE OPINIONS AND OR COMMENTS THANKS

like allowing ext and them silly half wall vans in prostock but no need to change the name to whtever the rumor was.... I dont like the idea of no unlimmited class however so im torn there.And go either way on clamped power....







AND ITS 420 SO I GOTTA UMMMMM GO FOR A SEC BE RIGHT BACK...LOL

So i have a question, since in prostock the top of the enclosure can not be above the LOWEST window, How are crx's not considered modified? because of the small window in the rear that you would use for backing up, just cause its tinted doesnt make it NOT a window.....just a thought.

CRX = MOD

Rex boxes are made to be below that window, at least mostly.

I am curious as to the reason to clamp power. If not for class definition, then really why? Some kind of issue with board swapping or something? I just am wondering.

Flamed97 wrote:

So i have a question, since in prostock the top of the enclosure can not be above the LOWEST window, How are crx's not considered modified? because of the small window in the rear that you would use for backing up, just cause its tinted doesnt make it NOT a window.....just a thought.

CRX = MOD

that always has been a window, always will be, and those that compete in stock and prostock build under that rear vertical window, box can be anywhere from 14-15" tall and still be under that depending on woofer so thats a non issue

I am wondering about the clamped thing to, the way darville explained it was a 600 watt amp can do no more than 2400 watts and you cannot go below 1 ohm

ok, so who is usaci to tell me what ohm load i can and can't run my amp at?

also how does this affect prostock since they are 18v, would it still be 2400? how is that even sound cool.

crazy stuff i've heard

i have seen a few that were over that......... so in that case they should be mod then?

well I was at the show yesterday and here what was discussed

#!. clamp amps for peak hold amperage and voltage take that devide it and you have impedance rise well then they look at your amp

example RD D5 500@4/1k@2/4k@1 ohm so when they get the impedance rise say of 1 ohm and your doing 6k your not legit.

my suggestion was this isnt correct because its peak hold now the way ive done thbis in the past was multiply the peak hold results by .707 and your close to rms b ut not quite there since amps have ratings based on fixed resistors its rms not reactive.

I dont like this idea myself.

#2. Darville says he has been trying to get rid of prostock for years, and it seems like its going that way. They proposed a new class called (advanced mod) its a no wall class you can use the mod tules but no wall.

#3. was no more unlmtd in stock because whats stock about 20 batts not this is what i was told.

I was also told that in mod the power is crazy when 1-2 is louder than 2-4 because of the number Kumar did I personally think he has worked his ass off, and isnt even using the most power available to him congrats to him, but because he was louder than 2-4 its an issue.

I talked to BIGUNS back in the summertime and told them i would run 8 smaller amps than 2 or 4 biger ones. I mean you have to look at it this way kumar had 40 something batts/12 12's/4 200.1's thats a superior setup on paper and in the lanes.

Let me take some time to say things have been going well the last 2 years, and only because rules werent being changed every year. I think this is what happend between 2003/2004-2005 2005 we had every devision affected by cry babies complaining about rules and well people either quit or went to other orgs because of this. I had heard it for years we want a trunk class why cant we have a class to play in well this eyar we had that class and 90% of the people that bitched about wanting that class didnt even run it let alone show up to finals.

its better to keep what ya go than appeal to 2 or 3
and lose alot

yes they should be mod and you should bring it to the attention of the person running the show

So just a simple way of having amps tested without having to have them sent in to be verified? Since it is not to determine classes?

CORRECT IN A WAY BUT DOING IT ON A REACTIVE LOAD USING IMPEDANCE RISE OF THE VEHICLE ISNT THE RIGHT WAY TO DO THIS AMPS ARE BENCHED ON A FIXED RESISTOR.

REACTIVE ISNT THE SAME AS NOMINAL.

i REMEMBER THIS BEING AN ISSUE IN THE PAST, AND A COMPETITOR I ONCE KNEW VOLUNTEERED TO COME TO FINALS AND BENCH ANY AMP IN QUESTION AT 4 OHMS (JAYE SELLE) THIS IDEA WAS TURNED DOWN

am i mistaken, i thought the amp test was if you were running over your class you would be bumped up a class or wherever need be once the power was divided back down?

THERE IS STILL A WAY TO GET AROUND THIS CLAMP Dung Pile,AND IF YOU DONT THINK THERE IS WELL YOUR SADLY MISTAKEN

the problem i see with the clamped thing is then everyone is going to have to carry a chart around to figure out how much power they can do and be legit at the 4 ohm rating, i mean sure its easy to say 4k at 1 ohm, 2k at 2 ohm, but what can i do 1.33 ohm, or what about .9 ohm, makes the math confusing and such, here is a chart i did for under 1 ohm with a 600 watt amp, tell me how we are suppose to bring in a newb and them understand this chart, or even for somepeople already competitors to understand

1 ohm 2400
.975 ohm 2550
.94375 ohm 2700
.90625 ohm 2850
.875 ohm 3000
.84375 ohm 3150
.8125 ohm 3300
.78125 ohm 3450
.75 ohm 3600
.7125 ohm 3750
.68125 ohm 3900
.656625 ohm 4050
.625 ohm 4200
.59375 ohm 4350
.5625 ohm 4500
.503125 ohm 4650
.5 ohm 4800


now that is for a 600 watt amp, well if classes say the same, well you will also need to do the same chart for 500 watt amps, and 750 watt amps, and 1k amps as well as 750 watt amps of the top of my head

now my question is this, if we are going to clamped power, rather than throwing in math equations and charts and cofusing new people, how bout we not do math and charts and just call 0-600 0-2400 instead, of course this still doesnt account for playing under 1 ohm

and what about 18v, now we are using the d5 as in your example sanman, ok its rated 500 @ 4 and usaci rates it at 14.4 v but since mod is an 18v shouldnt it be allowed to do more than 500@4 and 2000@4, doesn't going to 18v yeild usually about 50% more power, but you can still only do 2000@1 even though your using 18v?

ohh and mod 2-4k, no disrespect to that winner but it just wanst a good number this year with the equipment you could run in that class, that could have easily been beat in a prostock S-10,, imagine brus with 18v and 8 of the D5's or 4.1's, that be more than double his power

I ALSO ROUGHT THIS UP ABOUT 18V WE NO LONGER NEED TO ALLOW 18V BATTERIES, BUT I THINK IN MOD WE LET PEOPLE PLAY AS IS BEAUSE IT IS A MOD CLASS SNT THAT THE REASON FOR THE NAME


ON 18V I USUALLY SEE 50% MORE POWER, AND WHEN I FIGURED OUT THE POWER ON THE D5 YESTERY WELL HERE YA GO

24 16V BATTS
AMPS @.25 EACH

88V/92 AMPS=8096 WATTS ON PEAK HOLD WHEN YOU MULTIPLY BY .707 YOU GET 5723 WATTS. WITH A RISE OF .9

NOW SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHERE THE THD IS GOING TO BE FACTORED IN ALSO.

SO IS THIS AMP LEGIT YES WANNA KNOW WHY WELL HERE GOES AMPS ARE TESTED ON 14.4V NOT 18V.

MY DROP WAS 15.7V

ON 14.4 THIS AMP IS LEGIT SO IT SHOULD BE ON 18V AS WELL

I was just looking forward to competing against mark brus in 3001+

but i guess now i need to figure out what year caravan to get

Dam all this clampped power issue cuz I am not loud well f*ck

We tested for 2 minutes before our run thats not good enough

man i can see this clamped power thing turning into a HUGE clusterfuck from hell. im against it 100 percent. and will the clamping be done after 3 secs to get a true rms? will measurements be done at the same time? peak hold isnt the correct way to test it. what clamps will be used? lol. will they all be the same? not even at last years finals were all the dmms the same. and plus if a newbie wants to start competing...and he buys a craftsman dmm and clamp and hes getting say 2200 watts. and then he goes to a regional or his first finals and he does 2600. well that would suck. plus it takes away from a cool thing in usaci imo. getting as much out of your amp as you can

I think i know one person that brought up the Clamp power thing, I am not throwing names out but would like to hear their side of the story. They may have all this figured out already..
But from whats stated so far, its going to be a pain..

are any of the things on the board rational>

Nope...LOL




Keep coming with arguments dammmmit . The masses need to let the big know what they think of the new proposal stuff

1. If your amp does more than doubles power whenever you lower the impedance by two ohm then it is a cheater amp, will not pass, and should not be allowed in competition.

2. The "Clamp" is a verification tool only. If your amps are legit it will make no difference to you. If your not legit, then now is the time to protest it.

3. Darville will get rid of nothing and does not make the rules. Until I announce it as a rule, it is not a rule.

4. Fair is fair, fair is fun, and cheaters hate both.

So what will your answer be when a amp that has been protested, or "pre-tested" and passed Fails a clamp test?

SQcrewcab wrote:

So what will your answer be when a amp that has been protested, or "pre-tested" and passed Fails a clamp test?

Then it is either

1. modded
2. a newer SKU
3. A miracle of modern science.
4 All the above.


There is a lot of room for tolerance for one. If an amp fails it fails BAD and in that case it cannot be the same product that was tested.

im still lost. so if my amp is rated at 900@4 ohms and IT does 900@4 ohms but i clamp it at 6000 watts wired to .25 whats the verdict???

Hunter, You running at .25 wont matter, your impedance at your rise is where they will measure. I think... LOL

ok lets say rise is at 2 ohm

if you do 6k and your rise is at 2ohm, acording to Ralph, you are a CHEATER CHEATER CHEATER... This is a price example as to why this will never work. BUT, your 6kw should be peak, correct?

SQcrewcab wrote:

if you do 6k and your rise is at 2ohm, acording to Ralph, you are a CHEATER CHEATER CHEATER... This is a price example as to why this will never work. BUT, your 6kw should be peak, correct?

i think so. so if my amp is clamped doing 6k at 2 ohms its 3000 at 4 ohm?? EVEN THOUGH THE AMP WAS TESTED BY USACI TO DO 900@4OHMS?