1 seat & 2 seat class???

First topic message reminder :

Here is my question...

Is there a FAIR way to have one seat and two seat judging in the same class?

discuss...

Thing is guys---there is no big money.

If you won every money show last year--you took home less than $10,000. You likely spent that on gas and hotels attending the events---not even mentioning the actual build.

Car audio today is all about fun, friends and music. It isn't about money and sponsorships anymore. Those are gone. Even when you have money shows--there isn't that much money.

I won $850.00 last year. I made more than most. Steve Head took home close to $10,000 with TWO vehicles competing.

If there were $100,000 on the line, or even a show that paid out $25,000---then I would agree--it should be the best of the best with the strictest rules. But when you are talking about a few thousand dollars---it should be about whatever it takes to get the most people to the show.

I can agree with that as well. Sort of reminds me of Georgia Masters when they had a big dog class

OK OK OK,,,, here is what I suggest..... Only have one seat class and put all of the prize money you can find into that pot.... all of the one seat guys will be happy.... any all of the two seat guys can adjust their cars for one seat judging.... end of argument and everyone is happy..... at the end of the day if their is money to be won than that is all anyone is interested in..... so instead of trying to get the one seat wonders to step up and become real sound machines like the 2 seat cars. I say all of the 2 seat guys makes a few adjustments and compete in one seat.... ONE SEAT ONLY problem solved....

one class,,,, one seat judging..... only do prize money in the one seat class..... everyone compete in one seat.. forget about two seat for the money round.... i would bet the 2 seat guys would be happier about that than the one seat guys having to compete in two seat... ONE SEAT FOR EVERYONE!!!

if your being serious then your a fukn retard...

u take a car like marks..garys..or..chris' and tune them for one seat and they will still beat 95 percent of the one seat cars....its not the one seaters I would be worried about...the great cars will end up with damn near perfect scores...so how do u separate the god from the great....

ill tell you this...I can roll my car into the lanes right now the way it sits with the inch of tree sap on it and tune it for one seat and walk away with top 3 money...one seat isn't a big challenge...

hell why don't we all just go rent a mini van and tune the factory radio and judge with a bass cd......winner take all

hell of an idea...

This arguement will not have a resolution because the main x factor here is money. I think we are losing focus on why we do this hobby. It is not the money because for a long while there was no money offered to winners. Just the gratification that your car out performed all your buddies cars and you have bragging rights till the next show. I think that since the money shows have USACi or IASCA events prior to them, that the money round should be the best of the best period. If you have one seat car put it to the test and see what it is missing to be a 2 seat car and talk to the 2 seat car owners and builders to see how you can get there with out spending your life savings or cutting up your car. Economic times are not the best so I will be competeting with my daily driver till things turn around. This comps are not about the money for me. It is about the cars the sound and seeing old friends and making new one. I hope that we all can get back to that. The money is just a bonus.

Hmmmmm not completely true,
When IASCA started it was funded by the manufactures they did offer prize money and it was built into their budgets, Even USACi (USAC) gave prize money.... There was the "Masters Events" and then the Perry Invitational events.... Money has alwys been around. you may not care about the money, I hope you have an opportunity to won some someday and then we will see if you keep it or donate it to a great cause. Trust me everyone can use a little extra cash, even if winning is covering your entry fee or fuel or a night in a hotel it is worth it and its an incentive for people to come. The reason an event promoter would offer money is to try and drw more competitors into the event. money is the same as a trophy, take the trophys away and their will be people that stop coming for that simple reason alone.... people want a prize that why we do almost anything we do... Though you probaly would never win back the money you spend it is nice to have some compensation... this is true, that is why every company from Mcdonalds to your girlfriends favorite tampon company offers coupons. its an incentive to get people to come to their place of business or their event as well as a way to get people to buy their product or services. its human nature and people want it...

I think that you missed my point. I know that there used to be money awards but more recent years there have not been. I am not saying that people are not motivated by money. But for most not all that compete and are fairly serious about it do it becasue they love it. The money does not move them to compete because if that was true then before the return of the money shows there would have not been any competitors. Trust me I would love to get some cash in my hands. Lord knows I spend enough of it. You are right the cash prizes in most cases would not even begin to recoop what was spent. Here is the simple truth you can't be everything to everybody. No matter what someone is going to be unhappy. I think what the guys that are sponsoring these money shows are doing is great and if they can find the balance then great or if the money has to go to the group of cars that are 2 seat best of the best then so be it. It wont keep me from competiting. Trust me I am no Gary B, Mark E Chris P, Mickey, Jan or any other big name. In fact I am a no body when it comes to this but I do it for the fun of it. So if I win some money in the process all the better. I just hope that we all dont lose focus why we started off in this hobby. I would venture to guess that less than 2% said I am going to do this so I can win some money. Just my .02 cents. ok I am off my soap box.

Of course he missed your point , this is the internet

is their a point? I think we are all off topic...
OK lets slooow downnn and talllkkk about it........

I say lets all have fun.......
I say if their is gonna be money round, then put it all in one class.
Only judge one seat.
Everyone competes one seat and thier is no mor complaining,
Let that be the rule, period..
I have talked to a bunch of 2 seat guys, they would luv to tweak their cars for one seat.... then its fair for everyone... ONE SEAT IS THE BOMB.COM

fair enough for me

How did they do Georgia Masters back then? I know they took the top 25 cars or top 2 from every class but then did they go off 1 seat or 2?

their wasnt a such thing as one seat back then, installers and competitors alike would have never even though of such a thing.. the concept was to crown the best car.... it was two seat sq plus install plus rta plus spl and several sets of judges.. olympic style dropping the high and low scores

Champion wrote:

their wasnt a such thing as one seat back then, installers and competitors alike would have never even though of such a thing.. the concept was to crown the best car.... it was two seat sq plus install plus rta plus spl and several sets of judges.. olympic style dropping the high and low scores

Thats what I thought.

and they had a leader board...10 install and 10 sound judges....5 sets of 2

25,000.00$

In the end, it's up to the show promoter as to what to do with any money they have available to give to competitors.

I think the real question should be whether they want to reward the vehicles with the best overall systems that required the most work to make them that way, or whether they simply want to spread the wealth around.

And, believe me, I fully understand the need to attract as many competitors as possible to come to the show, be they one or two seat cars. And, yes, there are more people today that compete in the one seat classes than in the two seat classes, simply because it is much easier to build a one seat SQ car.

It is much like in racing, where there are way more people that race on the local tracks on Saturday night than there are those that race in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series, because its less expensive, doesn't take so much time and commitment to build the cars, and doesn't require an obsessive-compulsive disorder to do.

But do you thing NASCAR would ever look at their program, and because there are more teams that compete in the lower level series, they would decide to take a large percentage of the Cup Series prize money and spread it around in the lower series where there are more people competing? Probably not... If a racing team wants to compete for the bigger money, they have to step up and compete by the Cup Series rules.

Time for a little sarcasm...

If you just want everyone to feel good, then just divide the money up evenly among all the competitors in the money round. You wouldn't even need to judge the systems. We could all just sit around and drink beer (or your choice of beverage).

A little more sarcasm...

Or do it like the government is going to do to us with taxes... Judge the cars, then make the competitors with the best scores actually pay more money because they probably have more time and money than everyone else to make their systems sound better, and therefore don't deserve to get prize money. Then give the most prize money to the car that finishes last.


The point is this... If the idea is to reward the best vehicles for the time, money, and effort it took to make the system be the best, then say so and really do it! For sure, spread it out over the top several finishers and don't give it all to one person. But at the same time, reward those that put more into their systems to make them better.

It's not about the money being something that's big enough to pay off the cost of building the system, travel expenses, etc. In my opinion, it should be all about rewarding the best of the best, and creating incentive for everyone to continue to work towards reaching the very top level of SQ performance with their systems. Making the purses for one and two seat classes almost equal will not help create that incentive.

That is uUnless, as I said in my last post, all competitors in the money round are allowed to compete in both the one and two seat classes, with the chance to take home a bigger portion of the prize money. That is real incentive to build a top performing system that can do both.

Sure, my car has a system that's designed for two seat listening. I did not build it on an unlimited budget, with unlimited time to spend on it. It was simply a priority for me to make the car sound as good as it possibly could, and so I put more into it than I did on other recreational things. Now, if I take it to a car audio competition, and it gets judged to be the best there, then it would be nice to see that recognition. If someone else's car is judged to be better, then I believe they should get the recognition. But even if it weren't a two seat system, I would still want to see those that put more into their systems to make them sound good from both seats get the recognition for their efforts.

One last note... Over the last 18 years that I have been competing, the most fun events I have been a part of were definitely the first two years (96 & 97) of the SISC in Perry, GA. 25 vehicles, 10 SQ and 10 Install judges, five judging rounds (we had to do the presentation 5 times). Everyone that wanted to compete in the money round agreed to compete by the highest level rules, regardless of whether they usually competed in the Novice, Amateur, Pro, or Expert classes. Nobody whined about it... Those were the rules, adn if they wanted to play, that's how it went... None of us slept much Saturday night, and the entire day Sunday was stress and adrenaline filled (with an occasional burn-out...). I know some of you guys were there too. That was FUN!!!

That said, I think we all truly appreciate those of you that have promoted these shows over the past several years, and continue to put on these shows with some cash to give away!!! And likewise, we appreciate the manufacturers that put up the cash so the promoters can do these shows!!! Thank You!!! Ben, Rick, Joe, Monty, Larry, Car Toys Tulsa... You are helping to bring back some of the excitement we've been missing for a while. You guys come up with the rules you want us to play by, and I'll support all of the events of this type that I possibly can.

If I offended anyone that runs in the one seat classes, I'd ask you why? Everything I've said is my opinion, and is meant to express my perspective on what I believe competition should be about. Perform well and get rewarded. Don't do as well as you'd like at an event, then keep working harder to get to the top.

If you're still torked at me... Well... Then enter the two seat class and kick my.............! Or better yet, enter both the one and two seat classes and kick everyone's ................!



Mark Eldridge

How about resorting to a thumb wrestling match?LOL
I miss seeing the 4 runner.

A little more sarcasm...

Or do it like the government is going to do to us with taxes... Judge the cars, then make the competitors with the best scores actually pay more money because they probably have more time and money than everyone else to make their systems sound better, and therefore don't deserve to get prize money. Then give the most prize money to the car that finishes last


Mark Eldridge ROCKS! I totally LOL'd!!!!!
I didn't ignore your email btw...it's still in my inbox. Been busy. LOL Trying to make that mod money.

FORGET ABOUT PRIZE MONEY!
The event promoters would not have to beg for support from the few factories thats still support audio competitions.
Just collect the entry fees and keep it!
No more whining.
Better yet stop doing shows all together.
Then competitors wont whine about bumby roads, fuel prices, hotel prices and heaven forbid elctricity drops at the events...
(I remember back in the day we begged for electricity regardless of price)
Competitors wont whine about one seat or two seat classes.
Problem solved, then any and everyone can afford to have a system that isnt competition worthy.

Yep, get rid of the prize money, and the shows will return to their peak of thee years ago... 12 SQ competitors at every show, and 30 at Finals... That's just what we need to do... And you're right... Problem solved, because there wouldn't be any competitors to whine and complain.

Prize money bring with it a higher level of enthusiasm to work at making systems perform better, and to bring more competitors to the shows. People will drive from further away if there is prize money involved, because it creates the atmosphere of being a high-caliber show. Sanctioning organizations will usually make their part of the event a Regional status event, sponsors put more into it with bigger booths, helps the promoter bring in support and spectators, etc. Having prize money on the line is more to the show overall than just a reward for competitors. When there is money to be won, it helps generate more interest in the event from all angles.

Take the money away from these great shows that are being done this year, and what do you think will happen...

Not that it will ever happen again, but what if there were $100,000 prize money available at Finals again. (And I'm talking prize money, not re-distribution of wealth...) Think more than 50 people would show up to try to win some of it???

Most competitors want to be part of something bigger than a local show. I for one will be driving toseveral of the bigger shows like the Texas Showdown and Scrapin' the Coast in Biloxi again this year because the promoters are putting on great shows, and are working to have some prize money available for a money round. Winning in Biloxi last year did not even come close to paying for all my expenses, but being a part of a bigger, more prestigious show like that makes it worth the time, money, and effort to drive that far. If there weren't any prize money, there would not be much reason to have an olympic style judging round. And without that, the status of the show is reduced further, and fewer people will attend.

We've been saying for years... Bring back the bigger prize money, and the serious competitors will come back too. Put the money in the upper levels of competition, and more competitors will push their systems to be better, so they can have a chance to win the bigger prize money. When they push to get better, and keep moving up the ladder, more people will move into the lower classes to fill the void, and wow, we have more competitors...

But, to get the bigger prize money, the promoter has to show a solid ROI for the show sponsors who put up the money.

Anyone notice that the elimination of prize money years ago coincided with the reduction in the number of competitors...? I'm NOT saying that's the only reason the number of competitors has gone down... There are several factors including rules that change every year, poor show promotion, manufacturers not seeing a solid ROI from the events, cell phones, shoes, etc. Plus the fact that our society is filled with young people that want it, and they want it now! They generally aren't willing to work very long at something, like building a serious car audio system, if there's no big pay-off in the very near future.

But, I know bigger prize money would bring out a bigger group of serious competitors. I bet even Champion would build a car if there were 5 bucks up for grabs (That is if he can even build a car... Sure can talk though...). I think prize money need to be parrt of the growth plan for car audio competition. Simply telling competitors that they will have thb biggest bragging rights if they win isn't enough. I don't think it matters how muhc a show is promoted and advertised... If there is some good prize money on the line, it will bring out a higher level of quality vehicles from further away than if there's not, and it will creqate more excitement in the lanes too.

Mark Eldridge

prize money..... or no prize money..... electricity...... or no electricity............. bumpy roads..... or no bumpy roads.....
spl..... or no spl..............rta.......... or no rta.............
power class.... or no power classes...... channell classes..... or no channell classes....these are the questions..............

I say we make it into a drinking game....everytime a judge gives you a bad comment about your car.....you take a shot of Tequila!

mmm...cabo wabo..

Chris's Studio Civic wrote:

I say we make it into a drinking game....everytime a judge gives you a bad comment about your car.....you take a shot of Tequila!

Or the judges have to take a swig until they are too drunk to give a competitor a bad score! LOL

back to work honda boy!

Look at the Deep South Nationals topic... I think you guys will like it.

I hope.

what if a guy had a center drive car, what class should he compete in? single seat?????

You bring up what a few of us discussed a couple of years back as we were judging at Finals. One of those what if's.