Lack of Support for SQ vehicles or competitors

I just want to say how disgusted the guys are that are trying to run sound quality vehicles with the organization. There is very little or no support for us and we are treated in most cases as unwanted step children by the organization. I have talked with other major contestant groups (you know who you are) outside of our group and they feel pretty much the same. That was even more obvious at a show today when one of our guys practically had the beg Ralph Randall to come over and judge his vehicle for SQ, the show was already over and SPL had been completed, and he got judged just minutes before trophies were handed out. Since he had been the only one in his class, I am sure Ralph was going to let it go and just hand him a trophy. Our guy was expecting much more than to pay money and get a trophy(especially when the show was hosted by the owner of the organization, he expected things to be top notch), a true competitor and sportsman wants the be judged and critiqued on his system, not just pay money and get a PLASTIC trophy.(Ralph had a hard time even finding a SQ judging sheet; Is this a organization that plans for,expects, or wants SQ contestants?)

Several of us showed up to a event is McComb Miss. earlier this year, and the judge wasn't even properly prepared, and his equipment wouldn't work, after paying and waiting ALL day he finally said that he couldn't make the equipment work and called off the contest. To SUPPOSEDLY make it worth the people's time that traveled so far, he was going to give some points for everyones trouble but that never happened.

We already pay more than SPL competitors to be judged for SQ (why is that anyway) but we are the least of the worries on a most of the judges lists, UNDOUBTEDLY including the owner of the organization!

Now we have been told that SQ may permanantly disappear from the contest next year, if not enough interest in it occurs, but we are not told HOW MUCH interest it needs. We are doing our part, with building a minimum of 6 new vehicles this year, with more in the works, but we do not feel welcome or important at most events. The exception to this is the events that Mike Darville hosts. There maybe more judges that we have not met that care as much as he does, so I don't want to leave those good judges out. All we know that he does try to make it a good event for everyone and puts as much emphasis on SQ as the SPL.

CAR STEREO IS SO MUCH MORE THAN BURPING A DISTORTED 75 Hz NOTE! Almost any half baked Chinese product can do that now days, with some of them burning up in the process, I.E. (fires and smoke at Finals last year) Ralph, you and Wayne Harris have turned this sport into what it is today and it sure isn't that much, it doesn't educate people to GOOD car stereo or promoting safe, clean, nice, USABLE systems (and don't forget drivable). Its about what's easy for you and how you pad your pocket book. I understand making money, don't think I don't, but you have made car stereo as about as ONE DIMENSIONAL as it can be. SPL isn't even what it used to be and sure isn't a measure of how GOOD a stereo system is or really how powerfull a system is, its just distortion at frequencies I wouldn't even call sub bass. Vehicles you allow into the contest today would have NEVER been allowed in to a show in the past in the condition they are in, which in alot of cases are PITIFUL, and some DANGEROUS!

This will probably get yanked off this site rather quickly and I will probably be banned and ridiculed for speaking what so many really want to say, but it is the TRUTH and I have not said anything past the truth and sure didn't use a vulgarity to do it. Thank you for reading!

Signed,
Robert (Ray) Rayfield
with support from:
Mike Flanagan
TJ Lacharite
not to leave anyone elses name out, but couldn't contact you for permission!


P.S. I believe and hope there is enough integrity in this organization that none of our vehicles suddenly turn major losers because of voicing an honest observation and opinion.

Well said Ray. One of reasons I quit comps many years ago. Thought it might have changed, but after competing this year I can see that SQ is still the red headed stepchild.
John Neal

Very inetresting, Well spoken. Input ??

well said

LP4.1 ... How goes it ???

Well, I want to say that you have put the hammer right on the nail. I don't think you really said anything bad....just relayed events as they happened. What has happended is unfortunate. I know we have hit all the major event here in texas and there has been good judges here. The competitor turnout has been a below what I expected....which has been the trend all around the country. The problem is that there are so many shows, and fewer competitors and judges, add it all up and you get the mess we are all in. There is no real solution. There are just too many events and not enough competitors and judges to make it fun at all the events. I am sorry to here that you guys had that kind of experience.......We are holding an invitational money round and triple point show on August 22. All you guys are welcome just call my store at 979-268-6066. Ther will be to notch judges and great cars.

where is the show at if i can make it i will do my best the be there

TJ, check the other post for info. College Station, TX. 8 hour drive each way for us.
John

That would be great guys

ray i agree with every thing here and as a 6 year competitor and this being my first year doing sq the way the way all sq competitors are treated is not right it could make someone like me just give up and go back to spl but i am one of the few that will not give up i have heard all the older sq guys ( ray Rayfield, Mike Flanagan, Todd Crowder, and many more) talk about the old days and it sounds so much better and more fun when guys did sq and spl at the same time with the same car like i try to do maybe we do need to bring back the old days

thanks to every one for your support try your best to have fun and play good music

Well said Ray...well you're right about all of it...but it's OUR crews that keep showing up to these events to do our parts to REVIVE SQ... sorry to say but it is what it is...see my post in Street Q Scores


TC
TCAudio
TeamTCA

I know TJ Lacharite was at Scrapin the Coast. Score sheets were handed out as participants registered. I got there early to judge on Sunday while it was quiet and tried to spend a fair amount of time in each of the vehicles I judged. SQ was my favorite part of the show so I am going to assume Scrapin the Coast is not bunched in with other less than stellar events.

Now, to agree with what is being said. I've seen events where there were no SQ scoresheets, and if there were only one person in a class they weren't even judged. I personally like SQ and any show I judge for Greg I will do my best to make sure every car is judged fairly whether it is the only car in a class or not.

this is not about scrapin the coast

Ok, no problem. I was just wondering what we could do to improve if anyone did have a bad experience. I'd like to see SQ grow as much as all of you! I'd be perfectly fine with judging SQ all day and not having to wear ear plugs at an event to prevent a migraine!

No Matt, we had no problem with you and your judging, it was the location of the stereo contest, it is put in the back corner with the garbage, maintenance and loading docks. Our group had a better location than most and we still didn't have that much walk through. You could even go ask people in the front of the show and they knew nothing about the stereo contest, AGAIN no promotion from the adminstration.

At Tunica we were across a ditch in a back parking lot with car haulers and trailers, again no walk through by the public or car show participants, there goes another promotional chance for USACI. Poorplanning by the administration prior to the show. Shouldn't you know where you are going to be placed? And if you did know, why would you put it there?

If Ralph is going to attach USACi to car shows for the premiss of getting larger crowds FOR GOD"S SAKE PROMOTE IT, get more members, give out fliers, give first time discounts, and IF you really mean you want to build SQ (which you don't, you want us to do the work for you) make the entry price the same as SPL, that is a turn off in the beginning for someone, that the price is higher. Make the entry class as easy as possible so they will want to come back, don't go adding more install, and SPL to it. Make fun easy and upfront, so they will want to come back and learn more and improve.

Now I learned today that if there are not 40 cars at Finals SQ will be axed next year, well at least I have a number now. Todd, myself and others have been adding and we will be good if we can get 30,we know we have around 20) which is a hell of an increase from last year, but to get Ralph's magically 40 is going to be tough, he set it this high just to kill it. Actions speak louder than words, and all actions show that he does NOT want SQ, no matter what he says to our faces about it.

Which lets talk about last year for a minute, we were stuck in a hallway, again if you didn't know where we were or what we were you would never go there. If we had all the cars we have adde this year we wouldn't havefit in that hallway anyway. People were paying to get on the main floor not for our area, so I am sure they just thought we were overflow or something. Just goes to further show he makes no plans for SQ vehicles.

What I guess he doesn't realize we are not going away if he does kill SQ, we are not going into the wood work and we are not converting to SPL, so that means his actions will probably bring other competition organizations into his backyard which means he possibly will have less shows next year because of the competition will be eating into his base.

Our group and Todd's group are doing everything we can to support and promote SQ, and I am sure there are more people that are trying, just get up and do something and get qualified for finals and show Ralph we can do it, if we don't make it I am sure we will all work together next year on some way to keep SQ going with OTHER organizations. Ralph is setting the "Rules" and we just have to respond to them.

I heard about this, a set number for SQ at Finals but it was not from Ralph. I got a phone call from a competitor telling me about the SQ limit. Maybe I need to find out about this.

As far as what Ray is saying I agree. I do know that most venues I go to let me set up where I want but there is still SOME of those shows that tell me where to park. And yes it is usually out in the middle of no where or where I feel we are separated from the show. I don't like it but this isn't a USACi thing it is a show promoter thing. We try to do the best we can with what we are dealt, our members pay gate fees just like others do. I do feel however we are just as much part of their show as the car show side and shouldn't be set off like we are sometimes.

Now to the SQ side of USACi, there is only a few directors that actually ALLOW SQ to be included in their shows, me being one of them. We can choose to have a SPL Only Show or a Full Event (which includes SQ). SQ does take some time to judge and sometimes when things are going on it is hard to get to the SQ competitors since it takes some time to judge each car appropriately. The other thing is most of the time there is only 1 competitor in each class, I know I really try very hard to get to them and only 1 time have I not be able to, but did explain to them what was going on and asked them if they wanted to be judged. They said it was ok, I didn't have to since I had judged them several times before. Maybe I was wrong but at the time I thought it was ok since they said it would be fine this one time and I had so many SPL I was trying to get thru before the show closed. I was wrong looking back now and I am sorry about that.

It's really sad that Most directors make the decision not to allow SQ, (see above post on top of this one FROM A DIRECTOR) how in the crap are we suppose to improve SQ and get more SQ contestants if we are already being undermined from the beginning!!!

THIS NEEDS TO BE CHANGED!! of course it's too little and too late to fight that with a few months left before finals. I believe that a director should NOT be allowed to bar SQ, this further proves Ralph's not behind helping SQ. He could make it mandatory to have full line contests everywhere. So what if you say it is full line contest but you don't have any SQ contestants, so you don't have to fool with judging them anyway, BUT if there is someone that wants to compete they at least can! If you don't offer it there is no option for the contestant. I know we would have gone to several more contests in our area if they had included SQ. Our director for this area does not host many shows to begin with and almost NONE with SQ. The few SQ shows we have in Mississippi is some other director coming in and doing the show, Jenissa being one director to support SQ contests.

Don't we want more cars at shows for the contests and the dealers?? Your just taking that many more possible vehicles away from a show if you dont allow SQ, I know that is a minimum of 6 vehicles at every show just from our group. An even Ralph can appreciate that being more money in his pocket, if that is all he appreciates.

I'm glad to see the responses growing. The problem is that this post has lot of views, but not enough responses. I know some competitors don't want to take the chance of being "black balled" at events, especially Finals. The problem is, if they don't stand up and be counted they will not have events to go to.

I agree with everything so far. I think its sad that the very thing that started sound competitions,SQ, is on the virge of extinction with USACi. Has it really gotten to the point that seeing how much air you can pump(which is all spl is!)is taking presidence over how good your stereo sounds? And even if ralph didnt say this about the 40 cars at finals ShowB there is always some element of truth in a rumor! Ive never heard of USACi stopping a SPL class due to particapation(There was only one mini-spl vehicle at world finals last year and as far as i know shes still invited this year). So wether Ralph said it or not i think its a double standard!

Jenissa...it isn't a rumor...
Ralph, if you recall, you said to ME, that if we didn't have a better turn out than last year SQ would see a major overhaul or be gone altogether. That's what you said. It's a good thing you said it...competitors doing SQ need a fire lit underneath them.
I really thought that everything would get better this year. I'm done till Finals...all my friends know that and know what I have going on. I just can't believe we're still hearing of stuff like what Ray is saying.

Regardless of rumor or not, minimum number of SQ cars or not. Every serious competitor will be at Finals. Now I may only be speaking for OUR crews, but we (TCA & Linear guys) will have at least 13 SQ entries at the show. I can probably speak for another 3 or 4 SQ guys around here and feel pretty safe that Chris Pate's crew will account for another 5 or 6 at least. Our friends south of the border will also prob contribute 4 or 5 guys also. SO 25 SQ cars minimum.

Now, knowing all of this at this point, there should be NO REASON for:
A. Not enough QUALIFIED judges
B. UNREASONABLE judging timeframe
C. TYPICAL unorganization in general

Hopefully, again, USACi will PROMOTE the new "Street Q" class to the SPL guys to offer even more SQ exposure at Finals but who knows. Perfect place where EVERYBODY is already there. USACI also needs to offer a substantial "multi-entry" discount to these competitors as well.

All the above is well and dandy for Finals but I think this whole discussion is off-spun from normal weekend events that undoubtly show the overall LACK of support of SQ competitors period. Something needs to be done and has needed to be done for quite a while now but question is who and when is something positive going to happen for SQ???


Todd
TCAudio
TeamTCA

6APPEAL wrote:

I'm glad to see the responses growing. The problem is that this post has lot of views, but not enough responses. I know some competitors don't want to take the chance of being "black balled" at events, especially Finals. The problem is, if they don't stand up and be counted they will not have events to go to.

I'm going to say this deserves repeating. If a Manafacturer, a USACi Director, one of the top Shop/Teams in USACi, and Judge with World Champ creditals are willing to step up and voice their concerns/opinions to the organization, what the he!! is problem with all the post viewers and "post count increasers" with no d@#% opinion. Grow some balls and speak up. As stated above, this is a do or die issue for SQ!!!!!! Not a rumor!!!!!!

To bad it could not be like the old days. Some of the stories I have heard from TC and MF are just funny. But you could tell that SQ was in a different frame of mind in that time. I hope all issues can be worked out and we can educate and increase the want to compete; while showing respect to all competitors. I know so many people that will not compete because they feel like it is a joke. My personal feelings are, if you love the sport you should do everything you can to promote! This includes USACi, manufactures, competitors, and spectators that want to compete.

But that is a good point....many people do not compete now because they feel it is a joke. Just imagine if all the people did compete that felt that way. Wow how things would be different.

As I watch this thread grow, I can't help but think that we should offer some suggestions as to how the shows could be better. I know at the shows I have attended, the cars are all lumped together with no separation between the SPL cars and the SQ cars.

Would it be possible to have someone at the entrance tell us to go to one side of the parking lot if we are SPL and another if we are SQ? Also, at the shows like Tunica and Biloxi, the car show people had absolutely no idea what to do with the USACi vehicles. Could a USACi person be placed at the registration tent directing "traffic" so to speak?

I understand that this is a business and the powers that be want to turn a profit. Hell, if I could find a way to make money at this, I'd be all over it. I think there has to be a way for USACi to make SQ profitable. As competitors, we should go to as many shows as finances and time allow to show USACi that we are committed to making SQ a desireable part of the show.

I know Todd and his crew ALWAYS have the cars opened for display and show them to anyone who wants to listen. I have tried to follow that lead and open mine for display and am PROUD to show my truck to ANYONE that wants to see it.

I think the main problem right now with the shows is simply a lack of organization. Fix that and we could possibly get more competitors to the events and show that the SQ side can be profitable as well.

That IS the problem and that is what we want fixed. RALPH IS the organization since he dismissed the rules and ethics committe, it's his way or the highway. He provides no organization or proper promotion to the organization. He wants to sit back, collect his money and expects us as competitors and contestants to do the dirty work for free, where it costs him no money (for us, not him)to make it all better.

We pay to join this organization, we pay (and pay more if we are in SQ) to enter the shows, we are not his employees,were are paying, NOT GETTING PAID to promote, organize or work his shows!

Just as Todd said we aught to arrive and the contest personnel at least be prepared to conduct a show properly, with score sheets, enough QUALIFIED JUDGES, and the time to do the job. Just like last finals, THERE WAS NO ORGANIZATION TO SQ AT FINALS. It was CHAOS! We waited for two days to be judged and were afraid to leave the vehicles because we were told we would be judged at a certain time 3 or 4 times. Simply the administration did not prepare for us, care for us, or want to deal with us.

SQ judges training August 21st at my shop......if you are interested hit me up!

This might possibly be the first USACI sq training in a decade?

My thoughts on this. It is a shame this is what has become of the SQ competitions.

1. Don't schedule finals on same dates as other orgs. This does nothing to get the max people to your finals event.

2. The judging at events has to be fixed, period. The first time a new guy tries SQ and it is F-up why the hell would they come back period.

3. You must promote SQ to have SQ. Todd, Rob ect. promote the hell out of it but were is the org. in promoting. When you go to a show that is a Full Show and they have no clue they are doing SQ judging or act like damn man I have to come judge your car, again WTF.

4. To me if there is indeed a number on the SQ cars for finals that ultimately shows where the org. stands on SQ.

5. SQ started what people know as the comp. scene and now it is like the red headed stepchild around here. Shove it in the corner maybe they will go away and I won't have to deal with them any more.

6. If the org. drops SQ they will have another org. bigger than ever in what they consider their own back yard. Once that trend starts to happen say bye to your profits.

7. Ask yourself why another org. is growing and another one is not. It is about time the SQ guys decide where they are going to play. Pick the org. that is doing the most for the SQ scene and head that direction. Only way I see SQ staying around is for everyone to group together under one org.

Its time everyone made the decision to stay with USACi SQ or move on somewhere else.

I am not promoting any one org. but it appears USACi is not doing the SQ guy justice anymore. It is a shame this is what it has come to.

Jenissa-Thank you for at least coming to the SQ section and responding. You are always trying the hardest, to bad the others do not follow your lead.

Guys,

Neither USAC or IASCA has ever done any real promotion for themselves. It has always been on the shops or manufacturers.

Sq was the top dog because the manufacturers pushed their full lines. Only after say 2000 did the manufacturers realize the gold mine spl was. All they needed to sell was amps and woofers ( the bigger the better). If the company sold wire and interconnects so much the better. Plus these spl guys destroyed equipment quickly ( more sales for replacement). Then you have them chasing one more tenth of a db every freaking week. (More equipment plus reruns at the shows, just figure every guy in line after the first hour is a rerun.... big bucks for the promoter of the show)

At a SPL show you can run it with just two people. Someone to run the mic (promoter) his wife/girlfriend runs the computer. You get a easy up tent , table , couple of chairs , USAC supplies the meter to you on an easy pay plan (usually you are breaking even after a month or two) and you are fit to go make money. Of course you pocket the rerun money so USAC's cut is smaller.

Sq can be judged by one guy. I personally have judged a 20 car show by myself (ask Ralph he was the director at the show) And I did it in about four hours. The show ended by 5 that day. So with someone that knows Sq it isn't that much more cost to a director. Twenty cars time $35 equals $700, hell pay me that for fours work anyday.

Actually these directors are STUPID. They are giving up good money every show. Just having 10 Sq cars at their show is another $350 gross income. That's 35 reruns on the Spl side.

Another plus for the Sq guys being at a show they aren't all day long burping their vehicles pissing off any neighbors by the show. You can hold a Sq show anywhere and not worry about the cops coming.

Ok any director want to say I'm wrong?

If I had a job where I had really flexable hours I would have taken Ralph's offer to be a director years ago. I figure I could net at least $300 to $500 a weekend.

comments? Nasty Retorts?


Markey Dietrich

competitor since 1995