Numbers

First topic message reminder :

USACI had 42 in SQ. We had several last minute cancellations including Chris and his team. SQ is down across the board for all organizations. The economy, lack of industry support, and just loss of interest all play into it.


As for SQ at finals it went fantastic and there were some great cars.

RXZILLA wrote:

Ok, I see what’s going on here. My question to everyone is this. How do you support the manufacture?

The retailers buy product from the manufacturers. That is what keeps them in business, pays their bills, and makes the money they then spend sponsoring Motorcycle racing and beach volleyball. ALL their money comes from selling product.

The Customers purchase the product from the retailers
USACI/IASCA/MECA/dB Drag gives the retailers a tool to sell product and the competitors a place to compete and learn about it. It also creates a bvenue o show off what the product can do. Creating public awareness promotes sales and supports the manufacturer.
The competitors display logos and display their products at events to support the manufacturers.

Some manufacturers, like those at finals show that support back to the organizations and the competitors. Some only support the competitors. Some support no one. They ALL benefit regardless.

My twenty cents.

Champion wrote:

As a retailer, you buy from the manufacturer.. That is support!
Other than selling to retailers how are most manufactures supporting the retailers?

Damn good question. Some do a great job through suppoting sales and avertising. Some support sound off's on the local and national level. Some promote themsleves through beach vollyball, stock car racing, and motorcycle events under the assumption that brand awareness will create more sales for the retailer. All of this is support in one fashion or another. Just maybe not in the way we prefer.

There are very small number of manufactueres who do NOTHING for the retailers or to promote and just sit back and collect checks. Not ,many, but they are out there.

So what direction do we start from. Do we start from the manufacturer and work down or do we start with the competitor and work our way up? What Scott said was great but it looks like what Ralph is saying is that we made that attempt before. This seems to be an old problem that has been discsussed hundreds of times before. But whats clear to me is that there is division and bickering at the business (organization) level and at the competitor level (based on Jans comments). I guess maybe if we can get past the "us vs them" attitude we could progress a little further. Like it was said before some people just dont have the money like they used to. Or maybe they never had it and was using credit cards to do their vehicle. What ever the reason it has affected the whole game. Believe me...if I had a few extra thousand dollars laying around to spend on my car it might. But now...people are just trying to get by with basic necessities in life. Maybe people who build their own vehicle could compete against other people who have built their own car. And people who have had a shop build their car can compete against others who have. Or better yet... have classes based on the value of the the install...lol. Now that would be something. Class #1: 1,000-5,000 dollars, Class #2: 5,000-10,000 dollars, Class #3: 10,000-15,000 dollars, Class #4: 15,000-25,000 dollars. Because from a competitor perspective this is what it seems like this is what its going to come to.

bmuhammad1 wrote:

Class #1: 1,000-5,000 dollars, Class #2: 5,000-10,000 dollars, Class #3: 10,000-15,000 dollars, Class #4: 15,000-25,000 dollars. Because from a competitor perspective this is what it seems like this is what its going to come to.

How could you possibly police that? Every piece of my cars equipment was bought used or is over 4 yrs old. How would you gauge the price I have on my equipment.

That only grows a problem, not solves anything IMO. I like the brainstorming, but with the internet out there, getting accurate receipts will not happen.

8 Simple Classes,,,,,

Rookie Stock, Absolutely stock looking interior, stealth.....
Consumer Stock
Pro Stock

Rookie Modified, Visible modifications, no longer stealth looking.....
Consumer Modified
Pro Modified

Expert Open, All manufacture vehicles, or manufacture employees... anything goes.....

Monster, anyone or anything goes....

Rookies, cannot win cash prizes...
Consumers, pros and Experts, can win cash prizes...
Monster, does not win cash prizes.....
RTA and SPL in all classes, 135 db cap in rookies, no cap in other classes.....

I like that idea, just want to add that i think that Consumer Stock and Pro Stock on up should use the full score sheet. Only Rookie Stock should use the short sheet.

Joe it was just a joke...just pointing out how ridiculous things seem to be getting to me as a competitor

Champion wrote:

8 Simple Classes,,,,,

Rookie Stock, Absolutely stock looking interior, stealth.....
Consumer Stock
Pro Stock

Rookie Modified, Visible modifications, no longer stealth looking.....
Consumer Modified
Pro Modified

Expert Open, All manufacture vehicles, or manufacture employees... anything goes.....

Monster, anyone or anything goes....

Rookies, cannot win cash prizes...
Consumers, pros and Experts, can win cash prizes...
Monster, does not win cash prizes.....
RTA and SPL in all classes, 135 db cap in rookies, no cap in other classes.....

Pretty neat idea. Could anyone buck up and get in the Expert class by choice, or would it be for Manufacturers (vehicles and employess) only? Just curious. I think the monster class should still win money, especially if expert cars are allowed to sign up and compete in it. That could become a really big class if that happens.

You can compete up at anytime,,, but once you join a class and its on your membership card, that is it, your done, compete in that class and enjoy it,,, if you so decide to move up, then you get locked into that class..... the monster class would most likely have a car such as a single center drive or a van with a sofa in the back or something of that nature,,,, those will be very few and far between, and most people would not take their two seat car and try to compete against a single center drive car, being that the single center seat car has every possible advantage we can all think of... so the monster class would probably always be the smallest contested class... so no money for that class. unless there are at least 6 or more cars in the class.... in fact only have money available if their is ROI for the org,,,, only give money when there are a certain amount of vehicles in that class... heck even make the number 12... 12 or more cars should warrant prize money! right?

the monster class will never be the biggest class... perfect example is months ago, when it was said that a single seat car could compete in expert,,, everyone jumped up and down and said no, no, no, so,,,, adding a single center drive car didnt make or allow the expert class to grow, in fact by allowing such a vehicle it shrunk the current expert class by at least one car. please dont talk yourselves into beleiving that everyone is gonna jump into the monster class...

actually only pro should win money!

SQLAltima wrote:

^Monty, I didn't mean that it was on you. I meant what can those groups (including me as a competitor) do to help you get your customers to compete.

retailers have the greatest access to new competitors. The question is what can everyone do to help the retailer turn the average customer into a competitor? What are your customers telling you?


Another good example was a post on DIY forum about why people don't compete. That forum has its issues (and I'll be nice and leave it at that), but some of the answers in that thread have a direct connection to what is being discussed here.

I for one have to say for me money is tight and with a new home, a 15 month old and present shape of the economy, wife her two girls there is no extras. Rick and Andy both have been encouraging and helpful as well as Ben and others. (Thanks so much Andy for your time at Scrapin and great advice). I think money is tight for most everyone. Too many changes being made makes it hard to keep up with. A few years ago I was single and had the extras, I know there are some folks here that compete that have families. I am not sure of what all changes have been made to the classes and really havent been around for the mud slinging. I do know that all the competitors that I have met in sq have all been kind friendly and have given some great advice. That kindness of the competitors have always been a huge draw for me even tempting me to crack into a CD to free up some funds but cant right now no matter how tempting. From the moment I met Rick Sellars he has went out of his way to introduce me to everyone and open some doors for friendships. I truly think its financial for alot of people as well as manufaturers. Thanks to everyone here for all the kindness shown over the years. P.S. No matter who ive emailed a question to it is always answered. Thanks

Champion wrote:

the monster class will never be the biggest class... perfect example is months ago, when it was said that a single seat car could compete in expert,,, everyone jumped up and down and said no, no, no, so,,,, adding a single center drive car didnt make or allow the expert class to grow, in fact by allowing such a vehicle it shrunk the current expert class by at least one car. please dont talk yourselves into beleiving that everyone is gonna jump into the monster class...

Thats cool. I know how things tend to go in USACI. If the monster class is an open class (anything goes) then it would not suprise me to see someone take there two seat car and re-tune it to do one seat to see how they stack up. Thats all I am saying.

I think you hit it right on the head ironmaiden. I think thats what we see. People who have a lot more pressing things to do with their money besides put it in their car. If I have to chose between rent and trip to USACi Finals I know which on i have to pick. So overall I think this is what we see. Lets not beat our selves up to much over the fact that USACi competitors have dropped. Im sure the USACi organization is doing its best as well as the audio shops. Even the retailers. We are all stuggling the way things are. Like you said...a few years ago Iwas single to but know i have a family. And Im sure many other people are in the same boat.

x

ironmaiden wrote:

SQLAltima wrote:

^Monty, I didn't mean that it was on you. I meant what can those groups (including me as a competitor) do to help you get your customers to compete.

retailers have the greatest access to new competitors. The question is what can everyone do to help the retailer turn the average customer into a competitor? What are your customers telling you?


Another good example was a post on DIY forum about why people don't compete. That forum has its issues (and I'll be nice and leave it at that), but some of the answers in that thread have a direct connection to what is being discussed here.

I for one have to say for me money is tight and with a new home, a 15 month old and present shape of the economy, wife her two girls there is no extras. Rick and Andy both have been encouraging and helpful as well as Ben and others. (Thanks so much Andy for your time at Scrapin and great advice). I think money is tight for most everyone. Too many changes being made makes it hard to keep up with. A few years ago I was single and had the extras, I know there are some folks here that compete that have families. I am not sure of what all changes have been made to the classes and really havent been around for the mud slinging. I do know that all the competitors that I have met in sq have all been kind friendly and have given some great advice. That kindness of the competitors have always been a huge draw for me even tempting me to crack into a CD to free up some funds but cant right now no matter how tempting. From the moment I met Rick Sellars he has went out of his way to introduce me to everyone and open some doors for friendships. I truly think its financial for alot of people as well as manufaturers. Thanks to everyone here for all the kindness shown over the years. P.S. No matter who ive emailed a question to it is always answered. Thanks

ironmaiden is the same as most of the competitors, me included. Money is tight and if it comes down to spending money on stereo (equipment or going to a show) verus anything for my family...... well you know what's going to win that battle. Not counting the fact that a lot of folks are fighting just to keep their job, makes it tough to take the time to travel 3 hours, 6 hours, 10+ hours to a show. More local shows? But how?

The flip side of local shows. One of our local shops was looking at doing some shows, but the city government had other ideas and threw up so many roadblocks it became impossible to jump through all the hoops they were erecting. Who won that battle?????? actually no one. The competitors didn't get a show, the shop got no revenue from the show, the organization got nothing, the local economy (resturants, hotels, gas stations, etc) got no income from the show and the city/county/state governments got no tax revenue. But the city council thought they won the war since their residents didn't have to put up with loud, annoying, reckless car stereo punks. So, sometimes the battle is about perception of our "sport".

I enjoy competing again. I was burned back in the early 90's when it always seemed who ever wrote the biggest check won. The "sound only" format is what drew me back in. Having the product support and friendship of Ray Rayfield (Blues/Linear Power) has helped. I look forward to going to shows and seeing/talking with owners of shops (Todd Crowder, Steve Cook, David Woods, etc) and fellow competitors in all classes. It's great when competitors with years of experence (such as Sketoe among others) take the time to talk/demo/answer questions at shows or here on the various forums. I like being able to "bend the ear" of the organization (Ralph and his judges or Steve Stern and his judges) and have them actually listen to what I have to say, question my comments, offer suggestions, agree/disagree, it doesn't matter, they are willing to take the time. Then there are always the bashers, haters, etc (on forums or at shows), and the competitors who will not give you the time of day at shows. These groups will kill any enthusiasm that a new competitor or someone on the fence has for competing.

Is there any one answer? No. A better economy would help, but that is not the total answer. A lot of good ideas are being tossed around, but will anything change for the better is the question that must be answered. I will say there are a couple of things I have enjoyed about MECA: 1st is the 3 judge, average score at big shows and finals, 2nd is every class uses the same scoring format.

I'm looking forward to next year. See ya'll in the lanes.
John

i had to go get a delorean to read the first page.

fyi this thread was linked off another forum recently, thus the 'x' post I made to bump it. Just some discussion. This thread prompted the rule re-write. Lots of things have changed since here, heck two of the big name folks in the thread even work for different folks now. LOL