Numbers

USACI had 42 in SQ. We had several last minute cancellations including Chris and his team. SQ is down across the board for all organizations. The economy, lack of industry support, and just loss of interest all play into it.


As for SQ at finals it went fantastic and there were some great cars.

I wish this thread had not been deleted. It might have gotten a little off track on some things but I thought for the most part it had several constructive ideas. If I offended anyone by what I said I am sorry. Anyone who knows me knows I am a diehard USACI fan. I am in the process of getting together 5 to 6 shows in the TX/AR/LA area. When dates are confirmed I will let everyone know.

Here we go,,,,
How many people were surprised that Chris and his team didnt make it? I was, I think we all expected to see his new install and his crew! USACI created a class for his vehicle and then he was to busy to attend so all of his crew stayed home also. Hey I understand. But lets not say things were a bust because Chris and crew didnt show up. I personally thought this was one of the best ran USACI finals ever, minus a couple issues. There were some fine cars in attendance, but so has there been every year. No one has the magical answer. But everyone must have terrrible suggestions? Industry participation has gotten les and less every year. I know that several companies were in attendance. Since no-one else is going to recognize them, I will..... Thank you to all! DB Drive, DD, Metra, Memphis, JBL, XS Power, Intimidator Audio, Slick Chix etc.... Also thanks to the manufactures that supported there competitors at the event.... Team Hybrids, Team JBL, I am sure there were more... Thanks to all,,,,,, Lets stop complaining about the lack of participation and aplaud the companies that ARE supporting! Huge shout out to CARTOYS for taking on the role as the Hosting Retailer for the event. Thanks to Todd Crowder for all he has done for this hobby building great and helping with cars year after year...

It takes alot of work for sure, and sometimes the best laid plans and ideas do not work out. I am sure if we all work together we can come up with a suitable outcome that makes everyone happy. I for one have not heard anything bad about the Finals in Tulsa, which is a credit to USACI and Car Toys. I sure wish we could have been there, but when you have a new store to run it can be difficult to get away. That is something I found the hard way this year. Just ask Ralph....I paid for 4 entries and due to business at my store I was unable to attend. Good Job to USACI, Car Toys, The Judges, and all the competitors.

Ralph-Hope you took nothing in the deleted part any other way than the competitors of USACi are behind USACi and want to help get SQ back to where it was.

I think it shows people do care about USACi. If people did not care they would just not waste their time posting.

USACi did an outstanding job with finals. I felt everything went great.

As I said before my hats off to USACi and Cartoys for putting together a great show.

I am ready to get next season started. See everyone in the lanes for 2010.

I agree. I do not think for one instant just because we were unable to attend that it directly affected all of the attendance at finals. Everyone in our group was unable to attend for various reasons. Trust me, I would not have dropped 500+ dollars if we did not have every intention of being there. I wish everyone the best and I appreciate USACI for creating a class for the Honda. We will be attending a number of shows this year, and hosting a few ourselves. Best regards to all.

I for one would like to see the crap go by the wayside. The mud flinging, the name calling, the what have you, needs to stop. Why in the world would any one want to spend thousands and thousands of dollars out of their own pocket to compete in a sport and have any desire to reach the top tiers of competition only to be met with mud about as thick as the political arena?

Why weren't we at finals?

Plain and simple. Economy. We had made up our mind months ago. Monte had a pretty serious accident and we have medical bills, yes, even with good insurance. We've both started new jobs this year after a total of 3 job lay offs last year between the two of us. We've poured our hearts and souls into this sport for the past 5 years and now we're paying for it.

Not to mention the pretty sudden move of finals up a month or so...not so cool for us, or a lot of other people I'm sure.

I'll also state that I've pretty much lost a good deal of desire to compete when all we see and read about is mud flinging. I haven't been on this forum in months because I'm so sick of it. The sport has completely lost all resemblance of what I think it should be. Good, clean fun. Rather, it's become a sport seething with intimidation, sandbagging, and pocketbooks (or should I say plastic).

If we and others are going to be bullied around into spending upwards of $50k-$75k to build a car to be competitive (due to being pushed to move up in class)...no thanks. I think I'll go ride my motorcycles for far less money and have one hell of an awesome time and not dread logging onto the forums or going to events.

So there it is in a nut shell. A little late, I'm sure, but I'm also quite positive it's not just our reason, but quite a few others as well.

I'd love to see the numbers back up there. However, without some mature actions taken by everyone involved, I don't ever see it happening, ever.

Brilliant. Well said. On the button. Nice post Jan.

Champion wrote:

Here we go,,,,
How many people were surprised that Chris and his team didnt make it? USACI created a class for his vehicle and then he was to busy to attend so all of his crew stayed home also. Hey I understand. But lets not say things were a bust because Chris and crew didnt show up. I personally thought this was one of the best ran USACI finals ever, minus a couple issues. There were some fine cars in attendance, but so has there been every year. No one has the magical answer. But everyone must have terrrible suggestions? Industry participation has gotten les and less every year. I know that several companies were in attendance. Since no-one else is going to recognize them, I will..... Thank you to all! DB Drive, DD, Metra, Memphis, JBL, XS Power, Intimidator Audio, Slick Chix etc.... Also thanks to the manufactures that supported there competitors at the event.... Team Hybrids, Team JBL, I am sure there were more... Thanks to all,,,,,, Lets stop complaining about the lack of participation and aplaud the companies that ARE supporting! Huge shout out to CARTOYS for taking on the role as the Hosting Retailer for the event. Thanks to Todd Crowder for all he has done for this hobby building great and helping with cars year after year...

I agree-there are a lot of companies that have not been as involved in usaci as they have been in the past. I agree with the above statement that we need to recognize the ones that are.
This years finals were great-the judges done an excellent job. sure, there are always a few problems or disagreements, but we cannot let that overshadow the entire event. Lets not forget the reason that we all got into this sport to begin with-the fun atmosphere and thrill of competition.
Lets do what we can to support this sport and get involved and compete.

well put as well.

The hobby/sport has continued to drop in attendance of competitors, manufactures, and spectators... heres a famous qoute from the one and only Ron Trout, he made this comment at a rules meeting of another org years ago,,,, "if you dont wanna compete, dont! there will always be someone else who will step up and take the trophy"

Your post is a complete contradiction to its self...and to the entire point of this thread and every discussion that's going on regarding this sport currently.

^his quote is pretty much dead on. That quote started the down hill slide of that organization. It drove a lot of competitors away.

His point is we have to do whatever it takes to keep the current competitors because they are important, and we have to figure out how to get new guys in.


I apologize Gary if I misunderstood you, but I'm fairly certain that was your point.

Andy

If that WAS the point then it was entirely unclear to that point.

I must have missed something...don't see why it got deleted...I think there was some very good stuff posted amongst the random small 'unlikeable' stuff. Censorship...the man trying to keep us down. LOL...
There are good posts here too.

I don't get it either John.

but this one is going well too.

<thinkng to himself> "if only Jan and Gary could agree...."

LOL

jsketoe wrote:

I must have missed something...don't see why it got deleted...I think there was some very good stuff posted amongst the random small 'unlikeable' stuff. Censorship...the man trying to keep us down. LOL...
There are good posts here too.

This one will probably be deleted as well...don't worry...

It's the same stuff behind the members meetings going by the wayside...

Ok, lets keep disscussing it then.....

We can talk all day amongst ourselves to try and fiqure the best course of action, we wont all agree of course. If we share a common goal, ( which I think most of us here do ) then I will say again.... Who besides the people here are actually trying to be proactive, and make something happen. We at Performance Audio are still calling and trying to book shows for Usaci, and others. Wether it be through car shows or other types of venues.
I know DB drive, JBL, Kinetic, Battcap, Hybrid, Focal, ect..... are here and helping as much as possible.

Is your shop supporting theese manufactures?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You should be.

Who do you know that can help,.... make the phone call. We will host another big venue, call me. Give me the numbers and names, If you wont we will.

How many shows do you go to that audio manufactures are supporting that are not audio based shows? If they are there (Kicker for example ) They are not even part of the audio side. WHY? Ask them.

^turning it around a bit---what would it take to get more of your customers in the SQ lanes? What do current competitors, the organizations, and manufacturers have to do to get your customers to start competing?


The easy answer is cash--but beyond that.

You dont have to turn it around, We bring new competitors in every year, and get the companies we sale involved as well.

But as a general question, Yes. You are correct, not very many shops see the profit dollars in competeing. So it does take effort on the shops half.

I know people hate hearing this but when I owned Performance Audio it was easier to get customers to compete when there were power classes. That way you could build different cars for different classes instead of just one huge open class. We have people interested in competing all the time until they learn that if they want to compete there choice is go into the intro class and have an SPL shootout( most of the time that is the case) or go head 2 head against a customer that spent more time and money on Tech Flex and as Gary put it a new NASA approved security screw.
Look at it from a new persons perspective at the current SQ structure it can be intimidating. We are currently building a competition car for a customer who will only compete in the Q class because in his opinion the analness of the install portion has gotten out of hand. This is a customer who started out in the intro class a few years ago but got tired of getting in an SPL shootout and always coming in second place to the same guy that could out pressure him.That is my retail opinion relaying what customers have said to me. Sorry for the long rant.

For this thing to turn around it is going to take a couple things. First off it starts at the Retailer. Shops have to turn customers into competitors. That is the main problem. 90% of most shops are not doing that. For this sport to turn around it will take that. Secondly, enthusiast need a place to play that allows them a fair environment to compete. Lastly, no one likes it when someone stirs the pot or starts $h1t just for the sake of doing it, or because that person finds it fun to watch the end results. All that does is turn people off to competition. I for one do agree with Jan on that. I know that Monty, has brought in alot of competitors over the years, so has Todd, even Andy has been able to get alot of his friends interested in competition. I have done my share of turning customers into competitors as well. The BS needs to stop, and more shops need to do what we have been doing and then the sport will grow. I am sorry, I know that there are other shops that do(Car Toys and others) a good job at this as well. I salute you all.

Your spot on Chris.

^Monty, I didn't mean that it was on you. I meant what can those groups (including me as a competitor) do to help you get your customers to compete.

retailers have the greatest access to new competitors. The question is what can everyone do to help the retailer turn the average customer into a competitor? What are your customers telling you?


Another good example was a post on DIY forum about why people don't compete. That forum has its issues (and I'll be nice and leave it at that), but some of the answers in that thread have a direct connection to what is being discussed here.

post a link Andy...I wanna see.

Here you go John.

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/diy-mobile-audio-sq-forum/50963-why-dont-you-compete.html

Oh wow - THAT thread...and THAT forum...I left that forum for reasons that are ENTIRELY different from what's going on here...hahaha

That thread was a beating, and a number of those guys just don't get it, no matter how you phrase it, and they never will, nor will they ever want to or have any desire to....it's a complete waste of time there...lol

From a manufacturers side of view, it is tough to get away from the stygma that you are an SPL company when you make some really nice sounding speakers. Performance Audio can attest to that with the Miata that they built with the DD 1508 in the sealed box. Andy something was the owners name. I am trying to get DD into the SQ competitor's thought process. Even though I don't work for them any more, I do believe in their product.

never know what is going to happen in the SQ realm

This discussion was cyclic for many years on the old CarSound forum. Every year between 1999 and 2006 there'd be a discussion started on how to improve sound quality competition and get more people involved. I even started one such thread one year. With the demise of that forum in 2006, there's not been a place to host these conversations, and/or there was apathy to "go down that road again."

Each year, ideas are presented, such as "we should bring RTA and SPL back", and "we need to bring power clases back", and "we need to implement a dollar-figure class", and "we need to bring back a true rookie class", and many of these ideas are implemented:

Example 1: For two years, full-range RTA was implemented in I A S C A; you had to bring your system to 110 dB in full range and do an RTA test. Those that supported this full range SPL and RTA test told us that this would drive the masses back to competition. It did not, and it failed miserably. All it served to accomplish was blown tweeters.

Example 2: A true entry-level class was implemented in I A S C A, called Rookie, and as well in USACi, called Intro, and those that supported this effort swore on the Holy Bible that it would drive competitors back to the lanes by the bus load. It didn't happen. What has happened, however, is people sandbagging this class and trying to compete in it for two and three consecutive seasons and/or with professional-built installations.

Example 3: Some organizers though that by changing the rules each year, and giving "fun" names to the classes, like Street Smart, people would be lined up to re-join and build a car to compete. Once again, this failed miserably.

The wise man learns the most from looking back at history.

It astonishes me that we've been down this road a dozen times, in a half-dozen different forums, talking about how to improve SQ competition, and the same lame-ass "cures" are presented year after year. Let's change the rules. Let's re-name the classes. Let's bring back RTA and SPL. Let's do this and do that. This crap DOESN'T WORK. Stop it!!!! It's all been tried...keystroke revisions to rulebooks, class nomenclature, add this, subtract that. It's a bunch of crap. It's time to wash everyone's mind clean, and think outside of the box.

Someone needs to make SQ competition relevant. Someone needs to have a competition car at the front entrance of the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, with a booth, and people handing out flyers. Someone needs to host a membership drive at SEMA and CES. Someone needs to hire a commission-only internal sales guy to talk to Budweiser, Snapple, Mt. Dew, Lays, and Red Bull to get sponsorship dollars. Someone needs to hire territorial reps, like any manufacturer would, and give them a commisison based upon the number of memberships and number of shows scheduled. Someone needs to stop by at high-end home audio stores to hand-out flyers and offer spiffs to their sales staff for selling USACi memberships. Someone needs to reach across the table with a handshake to work with the other SQ organizations to team and work toward a common goal. Someone needs to get media interested in what we do. Someone needs to call on local dealers that used to host shows and ask them what it'd take to have them host shows again. Someone needs to figure out a way to get prize money back into the pockets of the competitors (see sponsorship sales rep, above).

Make SQ relevant. Make it important. Make the champions rock stars and use them in media blasts. Get SPEED Channel, TLC, Lifetime, hell, the freakin Home Shopping Network and the Cooking Channel out to shows; give them a free booth to set-up, with free carpet and electricity if they'll do a live broadcast. You'd be surprised how receptive people can be with a simple, polite phone call.

That's my $.02.

Scott

Scott Buwalda = Genius