Numbers

First topic message reminder :

USACI had 42 in SQ. We had several last minute cancellations including Chris and his team. SQ is down across the board for all organizations. The economy, lack of industry support, and just loss of interest all play into it.


As for SQ at finals it went fantastic and there were some great cars.

Just a small correction for you two (Big Gary and Little Gary) Almost all my cars that one world titles had nothing to do with Little Gary's exceptional Salesman abilities. All of them were done either mostly on my own time or in the years before Car Toys. I would like to so say Gary Knox is a heck of salesman.....and probably could sell Ice to a Snowman.

Regards

Interesting stuff. I first competed in 1992 (Yes it has been that long), when all the legends were competing. Did well and qualified for 3 IASCA finals in a row. Never went because it was too far. Here is my take from a professional and personal point.

First, car audio use to be FUN. People wanted to see cool cars with cool systems. That is why I started. It is not that anymore. Car audio has lost a lot of its coolness factor. You can blame many things. Lately it has been the economy but before that, it manufacturers have hurt car audio because they offer high end systems with most features that consumers want. There is no need to upgrade anymore.

As with most industries, products have become very stale. The greatest advancements in car audio have come in the form of navigation, USB connection, and Ipod connection. These have nothing to do with sound quality, only convenience for a consumer. These consumers do not see the need for anything fun and cool today.

This industry needs an image makeover and target market adjustment. Most of the industry is focused on factory integration and products to meet the everyday consumer. Car audio in general needs to reinvent itself as the cool thing to do. This in turn will help car audio companies sales in turn helping retailers and in turn help grow competitors. Companies should want to help competitors and sponsor competitions but at the moment, it does not bring them anymore business so why should they.

Car audio and IASCA/USACI/ETC and manufacturers need to develop a PR/marketing campaign to reinvent its image aimed at a new target market, those outside the sport. They need to get car audio in the spotlight of the younger demographic from 16-28 and show them this is what is cool, this is what you should want to do. It needs to become fun and cool again. Outside of that age range, other than the die hard competitors or those persuaded by a shop, they do not care about competing or making their car cool. Car audio needs to co-market itself with other companies not associated with car audio. It will open doors to offer greater reach to a target audience.

There are many opportunities but until car audio changes, nothing is going to do much good.

Just the beginning of a few thoughts, I am sure there will be more.

Dr. Lau has spoken

Big Gary here,
Let me put this out there for the record,,, Chris Pate is a really goood installer..... Chris, I thik we are really good friends, are we best friends, nope..... but good friends until you say otherwise, I will jump in your cereal once in a while, hey thats me..... Your track record does speak for itself, as well does everyone elses on and off of this forum. We have all done things that we all think has affect this or that org or person or business in a positive or negative way... You dont deserve any cookies! nor do I or Knox, or Eldridge, or Todd, or Monty, or Joe, etc etc the list goes on...
Monty is absolutely right and dead on,,,, We all deserve thanks when we do something that promotes the industry! And thanks is something that no one ever really wants to say. People also like to claim credit for things that they dont do, or take credit for more than they should,,,, Its human nature, we all do it,,,, Chris, you are in a dfferent role now, than you have been in the past, you and many like you (store owners) are the ones that can make the biggest difference's,,, hold shows, not one here and there, but put together a real series of events, contact a dozen stores and put together a regional tour, have USACI, or MECA or IASCA or make up your own rules,,, have sales at your stores, the store is the heroe, not the contest, the contest supports the store, but it will foster a new view of things and more people will want to go to shows, and more retailers will want to have shows,,, If I ownd a store, i would do some sort of event monthly, large or small i would do something,, This is for everyone,,,, Be a leader not a follower!!

Monty hit hit sqaure on the nose! and is absolutley right!!!
Dont waite for a show, put on a show..... Contact USACI, or MECA, or IASCA, or DB STEVE, or anyone, I would have to believe that one of the orgs would jump at the opportunity to help in putting it all together......

Due to being friends with Biggs I am editing this comment.

Scott Buwalda wrote:

This discussion was cyclic for many years on the old CarSound forum. Every year between 1999 and 2006 there'd be a discussion started on how to improve sound quality competition and get more people involved. I even started one such thread one year. With the demise of that forum in 2006, there's not been a place to host these conversations, and/or there was apathy to "go down that road again."

Each year, ideas are presented, such as "we should bring RTA and SPL back", and "we need to bring power clases back", and "we need to implement a dollar-figure class", and "we need to bring back a true rookie class", and many of these ideas are implemented:

Example 1: For two years, full-range RTA was implemented in I A S C A; you had to bring your system to 110 dB in full range and do an RTA test. Those that supported this full range SPL and RTA test told us that this would drive the masses back to competition. It did not, and it failed miserably. All it served to accomplish was blown tweeters.

Example 2: A true entry-level class was implemented in I A S C A, called Rookie, and as well in USACi, called Intro, and those that supported this effort swore on the Holy Bible that it would drive competitors back to the lanes by the bus load. It didn't happen. What has happened, however, is people sandbagging this class and trying to compete in it for two and three consecutive seasons and/or with professional-built installations.

Example 3: Some organizers though that by changing the rules each year, and giving "fun" names to the classes, like Street Smart, people would be lined up to re-join and build a car to compete. Once again, this failed miserably.

The wise man learns the most from looking back at history.

It astonishes me that we've been down this road a dozen times, in a half-dozen different forums, talking about how to improve SQ competition, and the same lame-ass "cures" are presented year after year. Let's change the rules. Let's re-name the classes. Let's bring back RTA and SPL. Let's do this and do that. This crap DOESN'T WORK. Stop it!!!! It's all been tried...keystroke revisions to rulebooks, class nomenclature, add this, subtract that. It's a bunch of crap. It's time to wash everyone's mind clean, and think outside of the box.

Someone needs to make SQ competition relevant. Someone needs to have a competition car at the front entrance of the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, with a booth, and people handing out flyers. Someone needs to host a membership drive at SEMA and CES. Someone needs to hire a commission-only internal sales guy to talk to Budweiser, Snapple, Mt. Dew, Lays, and Red Bull to get sponsorship dollars. Someone needs to hire territorial reps, like any manufacturer would, and give them a commisison based upon the number of memberships and number of shows scheduled. Someone needs to stop by at high-end home audio stores to hand-out flyers and offer spiffs to their sales staff for selling USACi memberships. Someone needs to reach across the table with a handshake to work with the other SQ organizations to team and work toward a common goal. Someone needs to get media interested in what we do. Someone needs to call on local dealers that used to host shows and ask them what it'd take to have them host shows again. Someone needs to figure out a way to get prize money back into the pockets of the competitors (see sponsorship sales rep, above).

Make SQ relevant. Make it important. Make the champions rock stars and use them in media blasts. Get SPEED Channel, TLC, Lifetime, hell, the freakin Home Shopping Network and the Cooking Channel out to shows; give them a free booth to set-up, with free carpet and electricity if they'll do a live broadcast. You'd be surprised how receptive people can be with a simple, polite phone call.

That's my $.02.

Scott

I agree 100%.

That is the solution, hands down. "If you build it, they will come!"

Now, problem is still TOO MANY ORGANIZATIONS all fighting for the same dollars. With no one organization able to claim enough market share or support there is no way to convince the big sponsors to invest. We have spoke to Coke, Mt Dew, Budweiser, and many others in the past and on more than one occasion.

Same answer, the market is too small and there are too many groups. They cannot support one over the other or risk making members of the other organization mad. If they support all of them then the cost/benefit is lopsided and does not work.

As long as there are 15+ “organizations” ( I use that word lightly) out there competing for a share of a market that in it's peak barely supported two, no one outside this industry will look out way.

USACI has had very large sponsors in the past. One in particular is still a sore subject here at USACI. After 2 years we lost a major sponsorship. The company noted multiple letters from a competing organization and their resultant fear of losing support by only being involved with one organization. Another sound off group organized a letter writing campaign to this sponsor. That group got some manufacturers and others who worked with this sponsor to mobilize and mail letters encouraging them to either expand their support or "change horses". They decided to pull out altogether rather than be forced to expand the dollars or risk offending these other people.

We were told by this sponsor "if you ever get all these guys to come together under one banner we will be back in a big way. Until then we can no longer devote time and resources to a market that is as splintered as car audio appears to be."

How do you argue with that logic?

How about this?
Guinness Book or World Records;
Years back we had a deal for Guinness to recognize a “WORLD RECORD” on the B&K. We made an announcement to the industry that this was coming. What do you think happened next? I’ll tell you. Three other organizations claiming their world record was more legitimate than USACI’s began calling Guinness. In the end we got a response. “Your sport is of interest to only a very small percentage of the population on a national or global scale. Too many different groups claim to be the authority in regard to this sport and as such none have sufficient credibility to warrant a world record placement in our publication”

Another lost opportunity, another chance to gain credibility killed.
Thrive together or flounder individually. We need to get past EGO. Nothing else stands in the way of the organizations working together. Even some who preach that we (the organizations) should work together tend to become angry if not given proper credit for being the fist with the idea! Incredible! Ego on the part of the organizations is our biggest hurdle. All others pale in comparison.

Next we need the industry (manufacturers) to stop using the organizations inability to unite as an excuse to stand back, not support the efforts, but to reap the benefits by sponsoring cars and teams. Sponsoring teams and cars is great for the competitors and should be part of the marketing with the organizations, not the ONLY marketing. This “Back Door” support does little to help the organizations and in many cases becomes the source of our biggest conflicts! Support the organizations, support the retailers, support the competitors, and support yourselves by being part of the industry, not just leaching off it. If everyone puts in a little, everyone will take out a lot!

IMHO

Jst to clear the air a bit,,Chris and I talked tody t lenght about what we have in common and about what we dont,,,, We are frineds and friend tend to agree, and at time they disagree,,, I made a comment out of context, and Chris took it for they way it was said, and for that I apologize, I need to do abetter job of re-reading my postes... Chris I apologize, in the future lets give each other a call be fore any conclusions are jumped too.... take care

Ralph, Thank you for posting, We all like to see your involvement...
You made alot of true statments above, and I have to agree with your vision... But I ask who do you think is leaching? I understand your back door marketing comment and agree.... please dont feel cornered or backed up against a wall.... But I am curious as to what you meant by that? Who is leaching off of who?

That is a good point. Who is doing the "leaching", and who are they leaching from?

Ralph, about your leaching comment? I am still curious.... Lets call a spade a spade......

I just went to Wichita Falls for the weekend, I went to the Texoma Speedway all day yesterday with my father -in - law... He races Vintage Stock race cars on the dirt track. There were about 10 different classes at the track they test and tunbed all day, and about 6:00 they got serious and started racing.... My father in law has sponsors,,, from local towing service to paint and body shops etc,,, he says he gets about 3000.00 a year total, and that pretty much keeps the car on the track, he races at about 4 different tracks in that area. It was a small track, I only saw about 3 banners signs hanging at the track,,, they probably were just banners that someone hung up for the fun of it.... This track was on property that one of the guys that was racing owns... Outside of town, nothing big or fancy, nothing formal or national..... It totally got me to thinking and comparing to what we do.....

Local shops can hold events at their stores, like they have done forever.... or even a car audio competitor could hold a show in a parking lot of local burger joint or wall mart or whatever.. Hang out have fun and listen to cars. Collect a few dollars from everyone and hand out a couple trophies, do a peoples choice SQ award. whatever,,, you dont even need an organization to do any of this..... I didnt here once the organizer of this event complain because there wasnt 300 hundered cars there... (their was about 100 total) and (8 in my father in laws class) not bad really, they only will race 10 cars to a heat.... I didnt here the organizer complain about the sponsor decals on the cars as they went around the track advertising the names of small business.... Not a single one of the cars that I saw had a sponsor sticker, on the car and also at the track,,,,, He was glad that they all showed up, and paid there 30.00 each and were having fun..... and I didnt notice one racer upset and fussing about much of anything,,, I am sure there was plenty of that going on.... Guys were wrecking there cars, and sharing parts to get each other back on the track, it was awesome.... So I recognized that as a group of car audio guys, we kind-of-all suck!!! from the competitos, to the orgs, to the manufacture level.... everyone should do there part, and everyone will beleive there part is what it is,,,,, Just as competitors feel that the orgs often wear blinders and do not listen to competitors..and the orgs feel that the manufactures are wearing blinders and do not listen to the orgs, and everyone feels like everyone is against the other..... I really have a fresh look at this whole thing...... I have talked to a good friend, and we are going to launch a Promotion Company doing shows here in this region,,,, Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, and Arkansas.... As we have susscess it will grow, Anyone that wants to get on board and help at the ground roots level please contact either of us and we will all start to enjoy the benifits of something new and exciting...

I also want to go on record, and apologize to anyone I have ever accidentally offended,,, Maybe some of my comments were meant to insult? Maybe not? But honestly most of my comments are colorful and are meant as a joke, sometimes with no meaning and sometimes with a meaning , doing as most people do, and allow you to read into what you want... I can promise this,, I will make sure my comments are not directly offensive to anyone unless i attach your name directly to the message... I will never peak around the bush and make a comment with out addrssing the person I want addressed... And I would expect nothing less than the same...

Gary, you have pm sir!

--Joe

Trying to offer another perspective on sponsorships, marketing dollars, sanctioning organization support, competitor support, etc.

Because I follow NASCAR closely, I'll use what happens there as an analogy here.

Within NASCAR, each racing team has the responsibility to fund itself in order to be able to race and compete each weekend (not unlike car audio competitors). For a successful NASCAR Sprint Cup team to run a whole season, it takes between 20 and 30 million dollars to run all 36 races. That's a lot of money, so each team must work with their sponsors, promoting the sponsors not only at the races, but also at lots of promotional events each week, and allowing the sponsors to use their cars and personalities as marketing tools.

However, the sponsors for each team are not obligated to provide direct financial support to NASCAR. Some of them do, some do not. For example, AT&T sponsors Richard Childress Racing for the #31 car driven by Jeff Burton, but AT&T does not directly support NASCAR.

NASCAR on the other hand finds its own sponsors, independent of what the teams do. NASCAR gets the majority of it's financial support for the Cup Series from Sprint (the NAASCAR Sprint Cup Series). NASCAR also has Nationwide Insurance supporting the Nationwide Series series, Camping World supporting the Truck Series, Whelen supporting the East series, etc.

NASCAR needs financial support from its own sponsors in order to provide the sanctioning ability for eacn of these series.

The main point to look at here is that each team has to find sponsorship for themselves, and NASCAR also must find it's own sponsors. NASCAR does not rely on the individual teams' sponsors to provide financial support for NASCAR.

Now, I'm not saying that car audio competition should be exactly the same way. But maybe the overall concept can work for car audio competition. We should at least look at what we do from different perspectives, and see what make the most sense.

The manufacturers have a certain amount of money budgeted for marketing/advertising each year. They spend that money in the best way they can in order to see the highest return on investment. If that means magazine ads, internet ads, a CES and/or SEMA booth, supporting SQ competitors, buying a booth at the USACi or other organizations' shows, etc, then that's their obligation to do so. If supporting a competitor gives a manufacturer enough marketing traction, and they can spend dollars elsewhere, while the competitor hits shows and competes in USACi, and as long as there are no rules against it, then more power to them. It would be great if all the manufacturers saw enough of a long term return to invest more heavily into supporting SQ on all levels, but many of them do not at this point. Hopefully they will again in the future.

And if there were only one organization, and it did a great job covering the entire country with regular shows in every region, & providing regular and excellent marketing opportunities every week, and if there weren't other products and events that consumers want to spend their money and time buying and doing (i.e. iPhones, extreme sports, etc), it would be more advantageous for manufacturers to spend more money supporting car audio competition.

But, it's a free-market system based on capitalism. And those that see an opportunity to make some money by being creative, promoting shows, and are willing to make the effort and take the risk, can start their own organization and try to get a piece of the pie.

The same thing has happened to the car audio industry in general. A lot of new atart up manufacturers saw an opportunity to make some money, started new companies, and while the economy was good, they did OK by taking a small part of other manufacturers business. When the industry started shrinking, many of these companies went away, and more are drying up every month.

Well, the sanctioning organization(s) that are strong enough and most creative will make it through, and possibly end up with enough competitor and manufacturer support to make it a truly viable marketing outlet for car audio manufacturers again. But the fact that there are too many organizations to allow manufacturers to support any of them is a product of the free-market system, so each competition organization must do everything they can to make sponsorship by any company, not only car audio manufacturers, look like the best way to use marketing dollars.

I don't think this would actually happen, but I guess USACi could write rules that would prevent competitors from competing with products unless the manufacturers of the products they use are sponsors of USACi. I know there is a written statement that brand logos on competing vehicles can only be so large if the manufacturer doesn't buy a booth at the finals. Whether that is a good idea or not, I don't really know. But fortunately, that has never been truly enforced that I know of. It would prevent the manufacturer from using the results for marketing, but it would also be chasing away one or mare competitor(s), and we don't have enough of them now.

Looking at it with the concepts behind NASCAR, the NFL, Major League Baseball, and most other sports, it seems that the best approach might be for the sanctioning organizations to do some serious searching for sponsors that would be willing to step up and support the organization. NASCAR doesn't call their top racing series the NASCAR Cup Series. It is the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series. Their main sponsor is given the title and highest recognition in every single ad, on every banner, T-shirt, decal, hat, and at every single race. If USACi can take the plunge, and totally create a merketing theme around a primary sponsor for the SQ Series, and another for the SPL Series, with secondary sponsors for other things, it just might work.

Then allow the competitors to use what ever manufacturers' products they choose. If a manufacturer also chooses to support USACi directly via primary or secondary sponsorship, they get all the recognition and brand support in USACI ads and promotional media. If the manufacturer doesn't sponsor USACi directly, then the competitor still gets recognized, but their sponsors do not get specifically mentioned in USACi advertising and press releases. (But no photoshop work on pictures of competitors and/or their cars, even if they show a particular product or logo. That's illegal.)

Just remember, if a competitor is discouraged or prevented from competing because they use a "non-supporting manufacturer's" products, then we've just lost another competitor, and possibly several more of their friends.

Anyhow, I disagree that manufacturers are leaching off of USACi. Is it right or wrong to do what some are doing now, supporting competitors with a few dollars, but not buying a booth at Finals? Interesting question... I don't believe it's wrong, and I would like to see them be able to justify directly supporting USACi with some of their marketing money. But they need to spend it where they get the best return. And at least they are making it possible for some competitors to attend USACi shows with some financial assistance.

But even what manufacturers provide is not a full-meal-deal. I don't know of any competitors that are getting total financial support for building their cars, re-imbursement for time away from work, covering show expenses, travel, entries, etc. It just doesn't happen.

Anyhow, Ralph, and anyone else that reads this, take it for what it's worth. Maybe it makes sense.... Maybe is just pisses you off... Maybe it does both... What ever, it's not offered as specific criticism, but as a perspective that hopefully will help spur ideas to improve the organization.

Gary and Mark, it seems you have misinterpreted my post to a fault.

My comments were taken completely out of context and is now a source of negative feelings on my part.

I was referring to all organizations, not just USACI. None of it was directed towards either of you of the companies that support you. I am taken back by the thrashing you have given back, particularly Mr Biggs. As a manufacturer representative for a company that has long been a supporter of the industry and of USACI I am amazed by your actions.

Lets get straight:

There are manufacturers out there who do not support any organization, or any competitors. Some even go so far as to attempt to discredit the organizations and talk bad or play negative politics. These are the people I attempted to refer to. They are the ones who suddenly find a competitor with their product has won and then suddenly you see them in advertising, print, web site, etc claiming their product is the best that ever was. They reap the benefits wile not participating and in many cases hurting our efforts. They ere leaching off the efforts of the rest of the industry including the sound off organizations and the company you work for sir.

These are the people I was referring to and the ones you seem to be defending in your e-mail calling me the spade. Supporting competitors is great as long as it is done properly. The situation in Kansas a couple of years ago is a perfect example of the program going wrong and hurting the entire industry. USACI took a major hit and had no participation in it AT ALL!


As for the "Too many organizations" it is time proven.


The NFL had to merge with the AFL to become one dominant group. The same for NASCAR, a group mark likes to compare us to. Throughout history is has been proven that to gain nation recognition we must not be splintered, but appear as one strong group.

Now, as if there is already enough competition in this arena, Gary announced he is starting a promotional group to compete against USACI in the heart of its strongest territory by promoting competing shows.

USACI has very little industry support and has survived for years doing events. We have not hidden that fact that this is our bread and butter. If MR Biggs feels that intentionally trying to cut our feet out from under USACI in some way furthers the sport then good luck to him. Perhaps it is time we close up shop and see if anyone even notices us gone. I for one can make a much larger income in the Fie Service, another job I love and one that is much more rewarding both financially and emotionally.

Hey guys, new to the forums, for those of you that do not know me my names Matt, work down here in Tyler and run my own Car Detailing business out of Performance Audio's shop. I own the red SC300 that was at Texas Summer Showdown.

I have been competing since late 05'. I know this pales in comparison to a lot of you, but I figured I would throw my opinion in.

I do apologize in advance if I repeat anything that has been discussed, reading through 4 pages of posts and remembering what everyone has had to say is not the easiest accomplishment. I am going to touch on the subject of bringing people into the sport, or BACK into the sport.

In 05-06 I could not even count how many shows I went to. I competed in SQ Intro. Simplest one to get me into the rhythm of things. I loved it. I hit Houston, College Station, South Padre, everywhere I could go in Texas, and I would even skip school for it. At most shows there would be the sound comp portion, food there, car shows, burnout contests, free keychains from vendors and the such. It was fun for me and anyone who went with me. There was almost always something for me to do, but not EVERYONE.

Which brings me to the point. It seems, in my opinion anyway, that most USACI shows are very competitor based, and not SPECTATOR based at all. I got into competing by going to a show and loving how it worked because it was fun, people talked to me, there were things to do and the such. How many of us began in the same way? It was fun for me as a spectator, so I became a competitor to have even more fun. This is something that could be looked it. I mean yes we have vendors there with free stuff, yay.. Its the same keychain I got last year. Think people. What can we do to turn the spectator into a competitor? What can we do to bring people up to the USACI booth and ask "Hey what does it take for me to compete?". I love USACI and hate to see that even since I started in 05' the turnout has dropped dramatically.

We can not blame everything on the economy either. YES it has had a terrible effect on what we do. Because in simple terms what we do is a hobby. It is fun. But things like family and making a house payment are going to come first before our "toys". That is just the way life works. That is why I did not compete for a year or two, I had things to do.

Now, hear is the question. In this economical hardship that we are all facing, what can USACI do to make it easy on the wallets of spectators and the competitors? I am not trying to be cheap, I do not mind the current prices and have always thought they were fair. Maybe a little inconsistant, but fair. BUT other people may think it is pricey? What can we do? Maybe run a line of shows where entry fee is $10 off? $20 off? Or how about this. Hold a show where if a competitor places 1st, their next entry fee is covered? Free food? Things like this may get the ball rolling where it needs to be rolling. This economy is the first thing on people minds. We need to find a way to make people think, "Hmmm.. entry fee used to be $45.. now $30 for a couple of shows.. think I might go." Or even in more business oriented minds they think "Wow this company is really going out of it's way to help the people out." The TOP issues are what need to be addressed to raise the attendance. All this needs to be well advertised as well to get the word out. Just some ideas guys.

Bottom line is I love USACI and do not want to see it go by the wayside... We need to do EVERYTHING we can do to pull out of this "Car Audio Recession" I am a SQ competitor and now compete in Consumer Q, so I do speak for all the SQ guys, that the scene for us is smaller then ever. I do not like this. I am friends with Todd at TCA, James down here in Tyler and lots of others that have told me countless stories of huge comps in the 90's. What happened? Lets figure this out. I know I do not have anywhere near the experience a lot of you have, and my opinion might not matter in some eyes. But I want to help things get back on track.

Thankyou for your time. -Matt

I spoke to Gary today on the phone for a long time. Seems we both took each others posts wrong. Thank you Gary for your input and continued support of the industry and the sound off organizations. Let me know what we can do to support your efforts as well. A strong 12 volt industry is in all our best interests.

Mr. Eldridge, I am aware of your opinion and agenda in regard to USACI and other organizations. We have supported your efforts for years and hope we can again in the future. I have always respected your input and looked forward to it. Your current efforts however appear to run counter to what is in the best interest of USACI and our members. That dissapoints me more than I can express with written words.

USACI will continue to work hard to promote the industry, help the industry grow, and be a dominant force in the evolution. With our finals in Oklahoma we will be making every effort to build support for that event through strong events, many of them in your part of the world. Profit is not the driving force and has in fact been removed from the table in as far as that region goes. Building a healthy 12 volt industry and remaining strong in that are the only items on the proverbial table. Competition in any industry can be a good thing, but misused or misguided it can be a bad thing as well. Let’s hope it is not a bad thing in this case.


Mr. Souter, if you are the small guy on the block, you have no place to go but up. USACI used this to our advantage years ago as others are now. Staying in the industry (25 years for USACI) over time is the true measure of success. If I leave tomorrow I leave satisfied that USACI was a success.

Our mission statement in reference to 12 Volt: To work for and grow the industry as a whole so that everyone involved my have a large piece of an ever expanding Pie. To grow business for everyone who relies on this industry from the manufacturers, to the manufactures representatives, to the distributors, the shipping companies, the wholesale parts suppliers, and to the retailers who make their living in this industry as we do. Our goal is to make you more successful so that by default we are as well.

How do we do this? We work to create public awareness of the 12 Volt industries through sound off events. In promoting these event we providing a fair, fun, and non biased format for automotive enthusiasts to compete, learn, and network with other of similar interests. The competitors have fun, people are made aware of all the excitement and creativity that is 12 Volt, and the retailers make a profit the caries on the reps, the manufactures, the parts suppliers, and yes, eventually back to USACI.

That is USACI. That is what I have dedicated my life to for over 25 years. I am proud of that.

Ralph,

Again, take this in the spirit of how it is intended... To help USACi SQ competition. I hope that nothing I am doing right now is working against USACi, nor any other organization. That has never been my intent, and in fact, quite the opposite is true. The reason I keep participating in this forum, offering ideas and opinions is to try and help make it better. I like the USACi SQ format, and have lots of friends that compete in the organization. And, I also like competing in MECA and IASCA SQ competitions. They offer different SQ competition formats, and I also have lots of friends that compete in them as well. Many of these competitors crossover to compete in USACi when they can.

Are there too many organizations??? Yes, from the viewpoint that you outlined in your last post. Agreed.

But then again, the answer could be "No" when looked at from the competitors' point of view. Different competitors like the different formats, and each organization has members that join each and compete in each.

What's the answer??? Is there really a best answer??? I really don't know...

But, it would be truly outstanding if all the organizations could work together, and have several shows throughout the year, including Finals, where all the formats are there. I wouldn't care if it were in Tulsa, Daytona, Nashville, or where ever... I bet a lot of competitors and manufacturers would step up and participate, especially if it could be a multi-year agreement, and they could count on it happening more than once.

OK... To the leeching issue...

In your initial post about companies leaching oif the industry, here is what you wrote:

"Next we need the industry (manufacturers) to stop using the organizations inability to unite as an excuse to stand back, not support the efforts, but to reap the benefits by sponsoring cars and teams. Sponsoring teams and cars is great for the competitors and should be part of the marketing with the organizations, not the ONLY marketing. This “Back Door” support does little to help the organizations and in many cases becomes the source of our biggest conflicts!"

Myself and a number of others took this to mean that a company that supports a competitor through sponsorship but doesn't financially support USACi directly is working through the "Back Door." That hit me pretty hard in two spots. My primary sponsor helps me with product support, and helps with expenses for shows and races I attend with the car. Also, I have my own company through which I build and tune competition SQ cars for myself and others, and I teach SQ seminars for installers, retailers, competitors, etc. Through these things, I try to make a living.

Neither my sponsor nor my own company have the money to invest in direct financial support of USACi, at least at this time. However, we do support the organization through participation, recruiting, assisting other competitors, offering training and products that competitors can use to make their car audio systems sound better, etc. Through these efforts, I hope that we help to some extent in keeping USACi SQ competition going, and subsequently to help the industry as a whole.

USACi is an open competition organization, available for anyone to join and compete. I love to compete, and if the vehicles I work or the students I teach in the seminars do well in SQ competition, that may bring future business to my door. So, am I using USACi as a part of the marketing for my business? Sure.... As long as the vehicles I work on do well in competition. If they don't do well, then the results wouldn't be worth using.

I hope that explains my response to you in that part of my last post.


After reading your most recent post, which said:

"There are manufacturers out there who do not support any organization, or any competitors. Some even go so far as to attempt to discredit the organizations and talk bad or play negative politics. These are the people I attempted to refer to. They are the ones who suddenly find a competitor with their product has won and then suddenly you see them in advertising, print, web site, etc claiming their product is the best that ever was. They reap the benefits wile not participating and in many cases hurting our efforts. They ere leaching off the efforts of the rest of the industry including the sound off organizations and the company you work for sir. "

Now that I see the detailed context of what you meant to say in your previous post, (not what I read it to say ) I can agree that a company could completely neglect to support competitors and the organizations, and then "back door" marketing when a competitor using their products wins. I agree that this would definitely qualify as leeching. But in order for a company to use the results in their advertising, it must get a release from the competitor in order to use their name and/or likeness in advertising, so I would hope that the competitor would at least get some kind of return or support from the manufacturer. But I could be wrong...

Anyhow... Ralph, I am not trying to work against you or USACi. If my efforts are truly hurting the USACi organization, let me know, and I will stop.

I will continue to work towards improving SQ in general, and to push SQ competition as part of that effort. In the end, for me, it is really about making car audio systems sound as good as possible. I was doing that long before I started competing in USACi, IASCA, TOW, CMAA, SLAP, MECA, and other SQ competition organizations. If SQ competition ends today, I will still be teaching seminars and building cars because there will always be people that want their car audio systems to sound the best they can. The fact that we have SQ competition organizations that give us the opportunity to compete is great! I hope it is always the case, and I hope USACi is always part of the equation.

Ralph,
Thanks for your time today, even though I about got a ticket when I pulled off the road to use my phone @$#^@$#! I feel good about our conversation and look forward to meeting up with you next week..... I think its real easy for all of us to take things out of context from what someone else really means, its also easy t o be a keyboard comando on here,, I am going to try to be better at both... One thing for sure we have definately uncovered a handfull of guys that are very passionate about car audio! My first car had a basic system, I didnt upgrade it then start competing, My first car audio purchase was a competition system, I have always been a part of it.... I want to do whatever I can to help the industry and to help car audio competition, Earlier I mentioned a promotion company, I probably didnt use the best terminology. I want to be a part of something bigger, that promotes shows, and promotes the business. What my level of input or commitment is, is yet to be determined.....

Why did the topic die? Is it fixed or broken still?

Trust me, its still alive.

Yea, I thought so. Seems a lot of it has taken to dark alleys and smoke filled back rooms!

USACI wrote:

Why did the topic die? Is it fixed or broken still?

Waiting for the competitors meeting. It is much easier to get the right points across face to face. Leaves less to be misinterpreted.

What do you mean John??? I don't understand....

LOL

I totally get John...he's saying you can type something and mean one thing and when it's read...it means something totally different. Better in person.

yeh, i am typing the word "tomato" but all you read and see is watermelon!!

I was being sarcastic. I totally understood him.
Yesterday was not a good day for me and I didn't make myself clear in my post. Sorry John's and Gary.

WELL I LOVE ALL OF YOU AND WOULD DO YA IF GIVING THE CHANCE...... Ohhhhh oops did i say that outloud...?????




On a serious note its good to see everyone coming up with helpful stuff you go guys........

montyj wrote:

Call Ralph, If there is no one there to have a show. Become a judge. I know between you and Wayne and Saltzman, there are some qualified ears. Do a show on your own, with Usaci. Join in a car show or sumptin that already has an attendance base. Basically if there are no shows, have one. Simple. You can get points for judging and you can grow that area back up. Take 3 or 4 sundays out of the year, and have fun with it..... my .02

I know I'm a little late to the party here. But let it be known right now. If there are any SQ shows in the AZ, CO, NV areas. I would have no problem being a judge for those. I still have my vette, but have lacked the time to get things settled with it and would be much easier for me to travel to shows without it and still be able to be involved.

So there it is, my hat's in the ring for this region.

Kompressor , what about New Mexico ? we are closer to you than Colorado !! jk just givin you a hard time lol

Ok, I see what’s going on here. My question to everyone is this. How do you support the manufacture?

As a retailer, you buy from the manufacturer.. That is support!
Other than selling to retailers how are most manufactures supporting the retailers?