New Stock Divisions Chart page 1

First topic message reminder :


*Panels-bed: Panels only behind B-Pillar may be removed.
Pickups may have equipment (batteries, amps, crossovers, etc.) located in the bed. This equipment may not protrude above the factory bed rail or more than 36 inches from the front wall of the factory bed.
(Not the bed lip). No Speakers or enclosures are allowed outside the cab.
Bed cuts are not allowed. Factory panels may be removed in the cargo area to facilitate system installation. Podiums will be allowed.

ANYTHING THAT ALOWES UP TO COMPETE IN THE SAME CLASS A NEW PERSON WILL NOT WORK WE WOULD STILL WOOP UP ON THEM I SAY LEAVE THE LOCAL CLASS BUT LET THEM GET POINTS FOR FINALS. OR PUT A CAP ON THE SCORE LYK KEVIN SAID LAST YEAR DO A 153 DB CAP IS THE LOUDEST U CAN HIT

THE ONLY THINK ABOUT THAT IS IF U RAISE THE BAR PPL WOULD NOT MOVE UP BECAUSE OF THAT. WITCH WOULD MAKE TAHT CLASS DIE OUT EVEN MORE.

Gabe,

The database is the Orion bluebook. Every Pawnshop in the world has one. No need to try to keep up. They are already doing for USACI.

L

mod4000 wrote:

Just get rid of the stock class all together. 12v stock And 16v stock and msrp would be great

I agree, get rid of stock class. What about runs of power and ground wire for the new class?

you could make the stock rules very simple. No changes to the interior or the system can't be seen from the side... either way the onus would still be on the builder and their skills.

gignmofo wrote:

Gabe,

The database is the Orion bluebook. Every Pawnshop in the world has one. No need to try to keep up. They are already doing for USACI.

L

How does one obtain one of these bluebooks? I would actually want to get one myself actually.

Gabe Sanchez wrote:

Having owned my own shop I think about the street pounders that I did on a regular basis. That is why I suggest that. It should be up to the retailers on here to come up with a begginer class, not pro competitors, or even USACi staff. After all ... isn't it the retailers that pay for the shows? Shouldn't it be a decision made by them to benefit their typical customer in the first place? Correct me if I am making too much sense.

This has been my point from the start, but vets who have nothing to do with shops keep wanting to kill these classes that they won't even fit in or be allowed to run. These new classes we are talking about are to benefit the retailer, manu, and Usaci.

Gabe,

They actually have it all online as well.

http://www.usedprice.com

Obviously you have to subscribe.

Peace,

L

Quote :

sanman wrote:
ok we keep saying newbs and i get that totally all b/s a side, but connie/darville does usaci not offer a local class for these guys to play in thats the newb class.

I remember my first year in comp I was overwelmed by the scores at the comps, but one thing was for sure I also wanted them big numbers as well, and I did pretty well for my first year with little help at all and i loved it it taught me alot

ZacDavis wrote:
I agree to a certain extent. But to answer your question of,
"doesnt USACi already offer a class for newbs?",
I would say no, no they don't. And they never will.
This proposed idea by Darville for crx's and s-10's has nothing to do with "evening the playing field for newbs". The reason is simple really, It's because no other cars are able to remove panels, therefor neither should they. The rule is there to even the playing field between vehicles....now granted, trunk cars may not win because of this, and rex's or s-10's may very well still dominate, but thats not the point. The point is to make fair for one/fair for all.


I think it's impossible for us to offer a class for newbs. Your all right when you say the best builders are going to go out and win these classes, even if it means going out and finding newb's to run the vehicles for them. Your right, theres no way to avoid it, we can make any and every rule imaginable under the sun and guess what, the classes will still be dominated by the best builders. We know that.


So?, where does that leave us with the "newbs"?
Well?.....I can't lie, surely I don't have all the answers.
In order to truly help the true newb guy, we need to ask ourselves what can and will encourage them to compete?, and equally as important, what it is that will discourage them from competing?.


The best answer I came up with relates to the "seriousness" of a competitor. It seems as though a serious competitor is more likely to and capable of spending more time and money on their system. The less serious competitor is less willing and or capable of spending large amounts of money on theirs. This has nothing to do with how long they have been competing (newb). Their budget is the key factor.


I believe that its time we retire the word "NEWB". Newbies will never have a class designed around their needs, we're unable to successfully pull off a division that isolates them from the vets. So we should stop trying.
What we need is to offer a division that attracts people who may not have the money or resources to compete at a high level, nor necessarily have the strongest desire to compete, yet.
So how do we attract them?


Well you already know where I'm going with this.
Since we already know its fact that pro-built systems will always dominate in newb classes...then how about we make it fair to the "less serious", or "lower budgeted" competitor.
That kid who normally wouldn't even think about competing with his Sony amp now has a chance at winning a trophy. Yes, he may still face a pro-built system in the lanes, thats inevitable, but the class would insure to him that his opponent will not have a $1500 cheater amp and/or $800 subs.
He will know his $500 system(or whatever the value) will be going up against another $500 system. This is very appealing to a potential competitor.


As a retailer I can now ask that everyday customer who comes through the door to "stop out at my show this weekend", we'll have a class he can compete in. He may say "no way, I've seen those systems, they have like thousands of dollars in them, I don't want to be embarrassed".
When you tell them there are classes where they'll only face cars that have the same valued systems, they might reconsider. And baddaboom, we just drew in a new prospect.


Another benefit to retailers.....
As it stands, we are having a hard time with sales because of the internet sites selling equipment cheap. Many of our shops rely on our install bay to keep us in business.
Many kids these days buy their gear online, and may even install it themselves, we may only see'em when their looking for a fuse or what have you....how about we use this particular type of customer for an example.


This kid decides, "I'm going to enter the 0-$500 watt class this shop was telling me about, but I'm not going to buy it from them, instead of paying $460 for it I'm going to get it online for $150."
Thats fine, but when another person with the same equipment crushes him...where will he go? Yes, he'll come to our shops looking for our installation expertise.
Of course, ideally, we make the sale AND the install in the first place, but I'm just giving an example that may bring in the kids who normally wouldnt come to buy in our shops in the first place.


Wouldn't this benefit the manufacturers as well?
If they started to see their lower line equipment winning competitions and there was a buzz going around about the value of their products, would they be more likely to support our organization?

We just went over a new division based on retail value that would benefit :
Consumers, (not newbs, competitors with limited budgets haha)
Retailers,
Manufacturers,
and USACI

How is it that so few people understand that the manus and retailers have bailed on Usaci for whatever reason. We are only trying to come up with something to benefit the inexperienced consumer and get them interested in the sport again, give shops a reason to host shows again by creating a class that may actually help them to sell products to people competing or thinking of it (sales are down due to the net all over and people who compete go directly to the manus for equip) Not really a reason for a shop to host a show is it? And for manus to be able to have their entry line exposed and get the big name companies back on board because people are again using something other than kicker or companies most people have never heard of.

There is no shortage of people buying stereos or being interested in this industry. Which mobile electronics is, an industry. Even Ralph started as a shop owner. I'm sure he doesn't want to aleinate the shops any further and would love more shops to throw shows. Between ecoustics and car audio there are hundreds of thousands of people into car audio. How many compete? Not as big of a percentage as there used to be. Why? I don't know but I am going to look into it. The big competitors with big heads who can't see the big picture outside there vehicles or classes are going to kill this sport faster than anything else. Retailers aren't the bad guys, but somehow always get stepped on, bypassed or treated as crooks for trying to make a living. Before the internet people used to respect us and look up to us. Now we are treated as rip off artists for trying to make a living. And people wonder why there are less shows now.

Very good points Mike! as i have stated before the problem goes deep Mfg sold themselves out years ago, the Internet and ebay and made in China were a deathblow, then apple sent the head unit market to hell, shop owners have changed many for the worse no passion for audio only making money plus today's kids give up far to ez??

Do you guys think that if the rules were to change to this, (all panels in rex's and s10's&no bed in stock) do you think this would make it easier for trunk cars and suvs to be competitive in the stock class?

Or do you think either way they need their own dedicated class?, like the mentioned trunk class in another thread.

im still in shock how you think that an s10 not being allowed to use the bed is fare to a crx or any other vehicle ???????

you see you didnt at first suggest to cut the size of the bed down you said not at all wich tells me you have an issue with this vehicle in particular

Just my interpretation but,

I think they are saying its not really the "Spirit of Stock". Cutting sheet metal and using the bed is leaning closer to "mod" in some peoples opinion. Wouldn't matter if it was an S-10 or Mazda or any other truck.

cutting sheet metal now you lost me because i agree with you then, but who does this

Well, what if we just rename the classes and change nothing really at all.
Jeff my question was pretty much "do we still need a basic stock class?" and if the answer was yes then why not bring it back as the current stock class but move the guys who have stripped out rex's and s-10's to Pro.
But even that idea had its problems, if that happened all the current stock 12v guys would be forced to compete against 18 volt systems in pro.

So after that, I suggested to break Pro into two different classes, Pro 12volt and Pro 16volt.
Leaving stock for more of the original basic stock style class that we used to have.

But maybe we dont even need a basic stock class anymore...and if we don't then why not just combine what we have now and rename them stock 12 and stock 16, or pro12 and pro16, whatever the name....
In other words the only thing that would change besides the name is that anybody could run a 12volt setup, even guys who are sponsored.

It seems that the Pro classes need more ppl to compete with. They already loss a class due lack of ppl at finals in Pro classes.

Can ppl that play in Stock also able to run Pro by choice at the same event (like at finals)?

I think the idea of Pro 12v and Pro 16v would get the guys out of stock doing 160's and leave it for new blood and ppl that just can't get to the 160's for whatever reason.

zacdavis wrote:

Well, what if we just rename the classes and change nothing really at all.
Jeff my question was pretty much "do we still need a basic stock class?" and if the answer was yes then why not bring it back as the current stock class but move the guys who have stripped out rex's and s-10's to Pro.
But even that idea had its problems, if that happened all the current stock 12v guys would be forced to compete against 18 volt systems in pro.

So after that, I suggested to break Pro into two different classes, Pro 12volt and Pro 16volt.
Leaving stock for more of the original basic stock style class that we used to have.

But maybe we dont even need a basic stock class anymore...and if we don't then why not just combine what we have now and rename them stock 12 and stock 16, or pro12 and pro16, whatever the name....
In other words the only thing that would change besides the name is that anybody could run a 12volt setup, even guys who are sponsored.

Actually I'm wrong, Tim Shaefer had mentioned to me a few days ago that if we did move them to a Pro12volt class then we should keep the battery limits for that class.
But still all that is changing really is the name from stock to ProStock12.
And then the current prostock would now be called ProStock16
(or 18, whatever the name usaci comes up with)

John, yes, anybody can compete in Pro as the rules state right now, but of course it doesnt work the other way around. Pros cant run in stock.

If we did go with that last idea i threw out there, allowing any and everybody to compete with 12volt setups, (currently stock but renamed pro12) then we could have guys that are sponsored by Kinetik and Optima.
Right now they have to hide the fact that they get discounts or they have to move to pro to be crushed by the 18volt setups.

Or hell, since nobody seems to like change around here, leave the names as they are now, don't change a damn thing, but just allow anybody to run in stock at least.
Come on, everybody gets competitor or dealer pricing anymore, that rule has been outlived. My grandmother can buy a system off Ebay for dealer cost, and she doesnt even know what a subwoofer is.

well b. stock is needed and ill tell you why ill even use phinney and ecker for examples

say both are in college they have buddies that know what they do on the weekend, and they have some issues a falling out so to say.

Now with there buddy going to the dean or something, and saying hey this guy thats getting a free ride scholarship or partial is competing on a pro level well rutro raggy because this just forfits schollarships. Now this may sound far fetched for some out there but lets put it into perspective I was a junior bowler with scholarships I had won from bowling, and chose to play in the big leagues before I had even graduated highschool well haters are haters, and i lost my scholarships I had won.

I have no idea what you just said Jeff.

Anywho, I updated the chart on page 1 to batt limits as Tim Shaefer suggested.
Whatchu guys think?

BTW, MSRP only counts subs and amps, and extra batts/capacitors. Wires, deck, custom box, tweeters, door speakers, tv's, none of that stuff is added.

lookin a little better might want to get rid of the stock and put all the nuts in one basket for the new/stock ppl with just the msrp class... pro 12 pro 16 shure would be cool

zacdavis wrote:

*Panels-bed: Panels only behind B-Pillar may be removed.
Pickups may have equipment (batteries, amps, crossovers, etc.) located in the bed. This equipment may not protrude above the factory bed rail or more than 36 inches from the front wall of the factory bed. (Not the bed lip). No Speakers or enclosures are allowed outside the cab. Bed cuts are not allowed. Factory panels may be removed in the cargo area to facilitate system installation. Podiums will be allowed.

Tim Schaffer wrote:

lookin a little better might want to get rid of the stock and put all the nuts in one basket for the new/stock ppl with just the msrp class... pro 12 pro 16 shure would be cool

Yeah thats not a bad idea. A few guys now have said just "get rid of the stock class if we went to pro 12 and 16".

Ya know though if we kept it around I bet trunk cars would do alot better. I doubt they'd be able to keep up with Integra's, Rex's, and minis. But then again ya never know. Mini's wouldnt be usin their beds and everyother car would have their panels in so it would most definitely be more competitive for the trunk cars.
Hmm, I guess if we did keep this Stock class we could adopt that old rule we had a few years ago in Basic Stock that only allowed 2seater vehicles to use a certain amount of space. I'm sure we could all come up with a standard measurement that works in all 2seater hatch's (RX7, EXP, CRX, Corvette, ect.)
With those rules back in the stock class I think trunk cars would do pretty well.

But again, like you said, maybe we aughtta stop concentrating on the burp cars and think about adding some more SB classes. I havent put any thought into that but I've heard quite a few people saying burp cars just arent very interesting anymore and people like watching the SB cars now.

Whatchu guys think?

Ok I did not read all 4pages due to it is 4pages and I am to lazy to read. But anyways I did read the first to pages and I input on the $$ on the system is a great idea. I mean even though it sucks for me because I wouldn't be able to compete in it. But just think if it did promote and bring more people around just think when they see the big competitors and they check out their systems?? That would spark hey I want that, so they may go out and buy a new system. I did that and now I am on my 3rd system in 3years. Manly changing box design. But still the more newbies come the more we can talk to them and educate them on what used to be what it was or what it can be later down the road. Personally right now I am sure we should try something new to promote new people because I wasn't around much from the time world finals 2008 was held. But I did hear alot of people are quitting because it isn't what it used to be. But thats a whole another story. Anyways I am down for price setting on MSRP. But maybe not older than 5 years old because somethings can get cheap or you won't find the price of it, if it is to old

I bought this upon the other members in the Car Club that are finally joining back up in the SPL world and agree to this statement to. It will surely bring some new people into the sound world. Maybe not the first year but maybe 2years it will boom.