New Stock Divisions Chart page 1

*Panels-bed: Panels only behind B-Pillar may be removed.
Pickups may have equipment (batteries, amps, crossovers, etc.) located in the bed. This equipment may not protrude above the factory bed rail or more than 36 inches from the front wall of the factory bed.
(Not the bed lip). No Speakers or enclosures are allowed outside the cab.
Bed cuts are not allowed. Factory panels may be removed in the cargo area to facilitate system installation. Podiums will be allowed.

adding 6 classes, not sure if ralphie will go along with that.

Anybody?

Just get rid of the stock class all together. 12v stock And 16v stock and msrp would be great

Where's the rest of the chart.

lets just leave it alone, most of not all of today's newbies won't stay around regardless of what you offer it's just the way they are.

"just the way they are"

So zach u don't think a company would put a lower price on the equipment just so that there team would win most of the competitor use stuff that they don't sell in shops so it's not real going to kill there buget idt think this retial price think would work

i really like the msrp idea and or competitors show an actual original receipts of there system .

n-stereo wrote:

i really like the msrp idea and or competitors show an actual original receipts of there system .

so can't buy used?

original receipt idea would be to difficult, I know I never keep receipts

I think this would be SO hard to police even more so then dealing with 4 ohm ratings. I like the idea of having a begginer class, just not based off of $$$.

I say ...

Class 1 - Up to 2 subs, 1 amp (no more then 1500 watts rms at what everohms rated), a single cap or 600 sized kinetik, 12 volt system, 1 alt.

Class 2 - up to 4 subs, 2 amps (no more then 3000 watts rms at whatever ohms rated combined), a single bigger cap or 600 sized kinetik, 12 volt system, 1 alt.

Anything bigger then above should go play in regular classes. True begginers never exceed that right there.

**edited because of bad spelling**

Having owned my own shop I think about the street pounders that I did on a regular basis. That is why I suggest that. It should be up to the retailers on here to come up with a begginer class, not pro competitors, or even USACi staff. After all ... isn't it the retailers that pay for the shows? Shouldn't it be a decision made by them to benefit their typical customer in the first place? Correct me if I am making too much sense.

Then I say finish it off by taking stock as written now, and make it mimic prostock (eleminate a class). That way you only add one extra class. Then the begginer class doesn't happen at finals. At best be a regional only award.

Gabe Sanchez wrote:

Having owned my own shop I think about the street pounders that I did on a regular basis. That is why I suggest that. It should be up to the retailers on here to come up with a begginer class, not pro competitors, or even USACi staff. After all ... isn't it the retailers that pay for the shows? Shouldn't it be a decision made by them to benefit their typical customer in the first place? Correct me if I am making too much sense.

I am a retailer, having a class with 1500rms amps will not be beneficial because then an amp thats rated at 1500rms at 1 but does 4000 at 1/4 ohm will still rule, which equals BIG TIME dollars t play.

The MSRP class would benefit most retailers customers because their typical customers finally get a chance to compete competitively.

The question on buying used....
YES, we can buy used, it doesnt matter if its new or 10 years old, it goes by the price it cost new (retail). Thats why we don't need receipts either, we can look up the MSRP on nearly any website for any brand.


By doing MSRP, there is no way your customer will to have to worry about going up against a $1500 cheater amp or $800 subs. He will be competing against other 500 dollar systems.

Will you call me Gabe?, 608-365-3500

This will also benefit the Manufacturers. Imagine a kid wins a couple regional events with a pair of Sony Explodes or something like that, now we're startin to generate interest from other Manu's because their products are winning classes.

Just a few reasons there, call me so I can explain in better detail. Kids may be able to buy $500 worth of equipment for $150 on e-bay and compete in the 0-$500 class, but guess what, they're going to need a professional shop to install that system to get its full potential.
We're already lost so many customers to the internet, this would be one small way to get some back into our stores.
but yeah, please call me

Gabe Sanchez wrote:

I think this would be SO hard to police even more so then dealing with 4 ohm ratings. I like the idea of having a begginer class, just not based off of $$$.

I say ...

Class 1 - Upto 2 subs, 1 amp (no more then 1500 watts rms at what everohms rated), a single cap or 600 sized kinetik, 12 bolt system, 1 alt.

Class 2 - upto 4 subs, 2 amps (no more then 3000 watts rms at whatever ohms rated combined), a single bigger cap or 600 sized kinetik, 12 volt system, 1 alt.

Anything bigger then above should go play in regular classes. True begginers never exceed that right there.

great idea Gabe ! maybe go even smaller for the average customer class like

class 1 = up to 2 subs , 1 amp -no more than 1000 watts total rms at any impedance and i like the cap/ tiny battery idea
class 2 = like class 1 buttt , 1001 watts +
either way power wise , its great for us retailers, consumers , USACI ,and the event promoter !

Using power ratings WILL NOT work ever for the classes that are intended for newer members who have small budgets.

No matter what the wattage is, there will be an amp that is expensive that they'll have to use to be competitive.

Zac , i like Gabe's idea better . my normal sub system customers that love the hell out of their system that didn't spend a ton of money can compete and be proud of their systems . the two classes would be total sub system power . example of the two basic classes . dd m3 would be 2400 watts in these classes because thats the rated total loaded power of this amp . like the 4 ohm rating , we would go off fully loaded rating from the manufacturer .

Zach, I see your point to a certain extent. While you poses a great gift to remember all the prices of subs and amps out there, the directors so do not (at least I think so anyway). Having access to that data base at a show would be a serious crutch and time consuming. People go on the internet for the better price ... does that mean they know the actual SRP? Can they add it up? There is a lot of not so intellegent people out their.

When I say 1500 watts I am saying at the the manufactures lowest published rating. These are the amps retailers sell everyday. Like JL, Rockford, Pioneer , etc ... the ones that have no place in USACi otherwise because of their 4 ohm ratings.

It would be nice to see a class made for begginers where shops can go head to head on box building skills and not with competition grade equipment.

If it were up to me, I would have these entry level classes, and limit stock for CRX's and Mini Trucks to what Darvelle suggested. USACi needs to get some of these extremely talented builders out of stock and into prostock.

You can call me anytime also Zach. You are a very knowledgeable guy, and respectable for that matter.

n-stereo wrote:

Gabe Sanchez wrote:

I think this would be SO hard to police even more so then dealing with 4 ohm ratings. I like the idea of having a begginer class, just not based off of $$$.

I say ...

Class 1 - Upto 2 subs, 1 amp (no more then 1500 watts rms at what everohms rated), a single cap or 600 sized kinetik, 12 bolt system, 1 alt.

Class 2 - upto 4 subs, 2 amps (no more then 3000 watts rms at whatever ohms rated combined), a single bigger cap or 600 sized kinetik, 12 volt system, 1 alt.

Anything bigger then above should go play in regular classes. True begginers never exceed that right there.

great idea Gabe ! maybe go even smaller for the average customer class like

class 1 = up to 2 subs , 1 amp -no more than 1000 watts total rms at any impedance and i like the cap/ tiny battery idea
class 2 = like class 1 buttt , 1001 watts +
either way power wise , its great for us retailers, consumers , USACI ,and the event promoter !

I see your point and would have agreed with you a couple of years ago on power. Now it is becoming easier to sell a 1200 watt rms amp. I sold a lot of PB 1500's with two sub setups. I can see 1200 watts though instead of 1500.

I would still have a limit on class 2. That way anyone with the big power houses would be forced into regular stock where they belong with that kind of power.

n-stereo wrote:

Zac , i like Gabe's idea better . my normal sub system customers that love the hell out of their system that didn't spend a ton of money can compete and be proud of their systems . the two classes would be total sub system power . example of the two basic classes . dd m3 would be 2400 watts in these classes because thats the rated total loaded power of this amp . like the 4 ohm rating , we would go off fully loaded rating from the manufacturer .

Ok, prime example.

Your customer is using a 1500rms MTX 1ohm amp right?
Then I pull up from another shop in town that sells Cactus, and I'm using the 1500rms 2ohm amp from them.
No big deal right, both are 1500 watt amps, but the kicker is that the Cactus is built to make power at a 1/2 ohm, or even 1/4 ohm, making over 4000rms in total.

Now your customer just got decimated by an amp out of his price range that you don't sell.

Does that customer keep competing?
Does he go to your competitor and by the other amp?
Does he get discouraged because he cant afford to compete?

These are all factors you wouldnt have had to consider if the other guy could only spend the same amount of money as your customer did.

So lets blacklist amps out of the begginer class ... problem solved.

Gabe Sanchez wrote:

When I say 1500 watts I am saying at the the manufactures lowest published rating. These are the amps retailers sell everyday. Like JL, Rockford, Pioneer , etc ... the ones that have no place in USACi otherwise because of their 4 ohm ratings.

I thought that would work too, Lumel pointed out to me that highest published rating means nothing.
DD could build a 4ohm amp that passes at 1500 watts, but dos 6000 at 1/4 ohm....

That seems like a daunting task.

Keeping up with MSRP is no harder than 4 ohm rating Gabe, come on man.

Gabe Sanchez wrote:

So lets blacklist amps out of the begginer class ... problem solved.

Make an approved list it. That way there are no protests down the road

Gabe Sanchez wrote:

It would be nice to see a class made for begginers where shops can go head to head on box building skills and not with competition grade equipment.

EXACTLY !!!!!!

And all shops sell inexpensive equipment, thats why we go by the systems value!!
That only leaves build.

mod4000 wrote:

Just get rid of the stock class all together. 12v stock And 16v stock and msrp would be great

yep pro 12v pro 16v..... add limits in lower 12v classes batts by size and amount get rid of the stock class in your chart.....keep your MSRP class and make the rules about the crxs and s-10 with panels in ect ect in that class because the main part for all of this was for the new ppl and cut cost...and in case its to many classes still with 3 MSRP classes and Ralph wont bite just try 0-750/750-1500

well i was srinking some of my old Zines up over the weekend and came across one of my old Whitlee Zines wow back in the day we had retail classes and it was ez, whole system except head unit $ 0-250 250-500$ 500-1000 base newbies on subs and amps batts it's ez nowdays to produce under $1000 systems that do 150s

n-stereo wrote:

i really like the msrp idea and or competitors show an actual original receipts of there system .

YOU CAN GET A COMPENY TO MAKE U A RECEIPTS TO SAY WHAT EVER

MSRP !

It's the great equalizer. Both for pro and for non-pro. All this bickering goes away.

I also like the idea of having the pro-division having the ability to let anyone in. Have a minimum DB level every year. Raise it every year. That way someone can't just buy last years car. Make it very very high where only two or three people could do it each year.

Theses people would be the "Masters". You then would see the true pros. Then use these pro's to pimp the products they used. This get manufacturers interested. You would also get true endorsement opportunities. As all manufacturers would want to be able to prove their equipment could do a 1xx.xx for $500 or $1000.

This brings people into stores to buy the "$500 a$$ kicker." Margins remain stable as its based on MSRP.

Pro's then will always pick the vehicles that do the best, use the very simple rules Zac outlined above. You also get rid of the whole minitruck vs. crx... arguments.

Lord knows this group needs less bickering.

This also gives people something to shoot for while they build during the year. IN essence a true qualifier.