Mod q opinion

First topic message reminder :

So, You guys think the large amount of cars and close scores is cool and competitive or do you think we need some more judging criteria on the scoresheet to separate great cars from excellent cars?
Honest question.
I have heard manufacturers go both ways on this.

Well some of you are freaking hillarious.....

How about this for an idea....

You can win Modified 2 x at finals and then have to move up to supermodified>?

anyways whats the use having this discussion right now anyways....We know the rules are not going to change yet and this wont do much for anything cause none of us write the rules...

You guys love this modified class and it shows... yall should get a room or something....


Intro should be just SQ

SHOULDNT HAVE TO BE RULES FOR PEOPLE TO ADVANCE UP IN DIVISIONS... MAN UP....

IF YA GOT AN ISSUE HERE'S A TISSUE..

Stubbs wrote:

Well some of you are freaking hillarious.....

How about this for an idea....

You can win Modified 2 x at finals and then have to move up to supermodified>?

Note: Modified competitors must move to the Super Modified (or higher) class after winning World Finals Event 2 times.

Copied directly from the rules.

Stubbs wrote:

anyways whats the use having this discussion right now anyways....We know the rules are not going to change yet and this wont do much for anything cause none of us write the rules...

Actually...I can count atleast four of "us" in this thread that did "write the rules".

Yeah....haha.

In reality, the rules do change. Case in point being Ruperto saying it's ok to do mod q and mod sq in the same comp, when the rules, as they are worded now, specifically say that you can't do that. I feel they need to be revised to reflect the way things really are.

I agree that some clarification needs to be made between "class" and "division". However I can assure you that Ruperto was correct in his statment according to how we intended the rules to be interpreted.

OK, then. Hopefully that will happen sooner, rather than later (maybe the next time the standings are updated? lol ). And FWIW I didn't mean to pick on Ruperto. He's a nice guy, and really seems to want SQ to grow.

yeah, it was the intention from the get-go for a competitor to be able to enter all three divisions of their class at any show and finals if they so chose. points don't mean much now a days...but the competitor should have to have points in what ever division they chose as well.

jkrob21 wrote:

Stubbs wrote:

Well some of you are freaking hillarious.....

How about this for an idea....

You can win Modified 2 x at finals and then have to move up to supermodified>?

Note: Modified competitors must move to the Super Modified (or higher) class after winning World Finals Event 2 times.

Copied directly from the rules.

How many have actually broken this rule?

And hats off to you who have written the rules..

and I do agree that there should be a 1 seat extreme and supermod...

Stubbs wrote:

jkrob21 wrote:

Stubbs wrote:

Well some of you are freaking hillarious.....

How about this for an idea....

You can win Modified 2 x at finals and then have to move up to supermodified>?

Note: Modified competitors must move to the Super Modified (or higher) class after winning World Finals Event 2 times.

Copied directly from the rules.

How many have actually broken this rule?

And hats off to you who have written the rules..

and I do agree that there should be a 1 seat extreme and supermod...

To my knowledge no one has broken this rule. As of the last USACi Finals the rules had only been in effect for two seasons. Kinda hard to break a "2 time" rule in the second year of said rules.

Oh WOW! I see your point now Stubbs.

Note: Intro competitors may compete in one (1) World Finals event before being required to move to a higher class.
MODIFIED-

Directly copied from the written rules again.

Now I copied this from Stubbs signature line. Wasn't Bass Battles Finals held after USACi World Finals?

2011 USACI SQ National Points Champion and Region 1 Champion
2011 USACI finals 2nd place Intro SQ+
2011 BASS Battles Finals- 1st place Intro SQ+ Champion

Stubbs has proven that the rules aren't being followed at the local/regional level in some areas. And that we all need to re-read the written rules and make some clarifications.

Now Stubbs...You can take that "SHOULDNT HAVE TO BE RULES FOR PEOPLE TO ADVANCE UP IN DIVISIONS... MAN UP....

IF YA GOT AN ISSUE HERE'S A TISSUE.." statment and use it to wipe the stuff off of your boots. Because you clearly stepped in something and should use those tissues to wipe it off.

Yeah unless jenissa has some special non-USAC sanctioned agreement in place...then yeah, Stubbs, you're modified...and were the day after finals.

Jsketoe , is asking the question cause he is working on making things better for SQ people and we should give him the support .
We all know that the rules are not perfect , but they made a big change a couple years ago and still need some work .I really think there was a lot of good changes and really hoping for even better changes .

jkrob21 wrote:

Oh WOW! I see your point now Stubbs.

Note: Intro competitors may compete in one (1) World Finals event before being required to move to a higher class.
MODIFIED-

Directly copied from the written rules again.

Now I copied this from Stubbs signature line. Wasn't Bass Battles Finals held after USACi World Finals?

2011 USACI SQ National Points Champion and Region 1 Champion
2011 USACI finals 2nd place Intro SQ+
2011 BASS Battles Finals- 1st place Intro SQ+ Champion

Stubbs has proven that the rules aren't being followed at the local/regional level in some areas. And that we all need to re-read the written rules and make some clarifications.

Now Stubbs...You can take that "SHOULDNT HAVE TO BE RULES FOR PEOPLE TO ADVANCE UP IN DIVISIONS... MAN UP....

IF YA GOT AN ISSUE HERE'S A TISSUE.." statment and use it to wipe the stuff off of your boots. Because you clearly stepped in something and should use those tissues to wipe it off.

Heh, I noticed that too, but I figured I had quoted the rules enough already. Seems like the ball might be rolling now.

Back on topic: Leave mod the way it is or open up the rest of the right side of the score sheet, either is fine with me.

someone caught that...took ya long enough.....

There is technicality stuff in the rule book that needs to be addressed...so the 4 of you here need to start looking harder at things.

Just like People who have competed before at a WF event cannot compete in intro and required to be in modified... that was on the rules and ethics board earlier this year due to me bringing it to the top at ATX heatwave... I will make examples out of people if I have to and if your going to have a rule book and I see a loophole I will snag that loop hole and show you afterwards... now you see what Im saying guys......... ? Frys I can say is still less than a year after my first competition at turkey drag 2010.. so technicality it is what it is... but Ive seen some of yall jump classes to get points so cant point fingers... And having someone run your your vehicle for you all the time when your not there for 3 shows is BS also...

Competitor and vehicle should be present for competitor to get points.

I do agree that 2 yrs into a new rule book is hard to apply in some ways... in another 10 yrs it might all be worked out and working right..

This is a good pissing match...

ohh yeah and also vehicles not meeting points criteria shouldnt be allowed to compete at finals if they are in a region with enough shows to qualify...

Shop built vehicles should not be alowed in intosq+

Intro SQ is supposed to be an entry level class but isnt governed that way... I suggest changes if your going to revisit the rules also...

And modified....

"Modification to the floor pan is prohibited." if the vehicle is custom built and this is not for sq purposes is it still illegal.... ?

console boxes......

"subwoofer(s) must be installed behind the B-pillar"
so can you run a center console box extending to dash board with subwoofers with ports under dash huh? few were in violation at wf for this

sponsored vehicles

"All former "expert" or manufacturer-type vehicles in this class or anyone that so chooses. Anyone who works for a 12-volt manufacturer or distributor, receives free equipment, USACi directors/employees as well as "high ranking" individuals of competing organizations MUST compete in the Xtreme division."

so people who work at a shop doing audio, or sell audio stuff, automatically go here... know a few vehicles at WF violating this also...

finally extreme....

"Xtreme SQ+ competitors will not be permitted to compete in any Q class."

so rest of the classes can compete in SQ+ and rest of the Q classes but Xtreme cant... so double standards.... ????


SO basically My truck with a custom trans tunnel for clearnace to my trans and firewall notch violate all the rules up to supermod...???? thats bs and very bias tward only using newer vehicles etc for competition... Figure it out and someone tell me what class I should compete in then PLEASE....

I'll add my 2 cents here. My credentials are as follows:

-USAC judge from 1996 to 1999
-IASCA judge from 1999 to 2004
-EMMA judge from 2006 to 2008
-competing for upwards of 15 years

I took a break from comps after returning from Europe. I was a little burned out from judging so much over there. I decided to go to the even in Houston at Fry's even though alot of people had told me that that USACi rules meant next to nothing and that the judges they had experienced weren't trained nor knew what to look for in an SQ car. Notice I am not going to make subjective points here, just list my experiences.

-rookie judge used with no experience in anything but SPL (nice guy though)
-people entering multiple classes
-people switching classes while judging was going on
-people being moved between classes after judging finished just so they could win
-I tallied the score sheets....I repeat...I tallied the score sheets...I was a competitor


Now here are my opinions on the rules and judging:

-make rules that work like the other organizations, they work, USACi rules don't
-stick to the rules no matter what, it will gain USACi respect
-train new judges and require they follow a trained judge until they seem to get it
-make sure current judges are all on the same page and agree with criteria.
-competitors must be made to advance out of Intro or Beginner...whatever the class might be called so they can become more competitive and allow new competitors to discover comps
-if your vehicle was shop-built, that is a professional install, compete with them in their class
-start judging on time, start the event on time, have someone available to park people
-make SQ as important as SPL...if this doesn't happen, the SQ side will vanish. How do I know...it happened before.


I have stated my opinion and do not wish to enter into a ''pissing match" as that is counterproductive. I will compete in the future and give my input on those events, if anyone cares to hear them. I will do my best to make it to events and give my input, I love SQ and can't stand to see it this way.

After reviewing the past post and Stubbs arguments on this thread I take total resposability of Fry's mishappens and appologize to the comperitors present and Usaci .I repeat USACI did not had anything on my decitions .I was aware of Stubbs competing on that class he was the only and I discuss his plans and for coming year .I also commented to all the comperitors that I wanted to make it a fun weekend more of an itroduction for all of us and commited my self to continue to work with everyone involve to take more cars for world finals from this area and with that in mind .I try to introduce them to all the aspects of competing even to the scoring and totalling of sheets at that time I thought it was great that everyone gather toghether including the wifes to tally score sheets . But know I do take my full resposability and pull myself from Judging ,I thank USACI for all the trust they place on me as a judge even inviting me to judge finals .
I will only compete and act as a comperitor .

Ruperto...mistakes happen...none of us are perfect...I don't think anyone would ask you to resign as a judge.
Stubbs...I looked your truck over and I see no reason it isn't modified at this point. You put a set of kicks in the floor with the floor modded for what ever reason...I would want a real close look and photos. We talked at FInals about a wording change for vehicle that never had a stereo or one like we know it. I feel you have been classified correctly up until the fry's show from what I can see/have seen.
gln305...well, some of what you say makes sense...The rules and sheets work...tweaks could be made...yes. The problem is the management and judging at the events. And I 100% agree on the strictness of rules and points applications need to return...I however would like to see a lower point cap. Will that happen? I dunno. Not my call.

Ruperto dont bow out... not my intentions to get you to do that... Your a damn good judge and your always right on the mark in your judging from all i have seen... yeah i screwed up by going in the intro at frys maybe..To those who think I just snuck into intro at frys your wrong... was going to go street q but let someone else have a win and went to intro so I wouldnt be against him for starters... secondly it was bass battles finals not USACI, and yeah it was USACI classes but was a finals event in my eyes and there was nothing wrong no harm no foul... didnt go against anyone... you can take my points away at this point for that show I dont care.

others did worse than that this last year and i wont compete in intro ever again... thats for dang sure.

Rules need clearification... and some tweaks... we all agree on this...

Yeah we did talk and just gota make sure everyone understands what this and that is and we need to have some exemptions for older vehicles possibly, and we make the rules more clear for all of this....

Stubbs allow me to tackle a few of your statements here.

First regarding vehicles being ran by someone other than the owner/competitor. There are instances where this is deemed okay. One such instance would be in the case of a competitor being deployed in the military among others.

The rules clearly state that you will move up from intro after 1 world Finals event. Therfore you should have takin it upon yourself to enter the appropiate class at the next event attended after finals. True also that someone should have caught it and moved you.

What is your reasoning for shop built vehicles not being allowed in intro? I have seen a lot of DIY builds over the years that could and did put shop builds to shame. This is one of the reasons we did away with the consumer vs pro divisions. Everyone has to start somewhere and inro is designed to be just that place. The fact that a vehicle was built at a shop does not make the competitor themselves more seasoned than the DIY guy. As a matter of fact it sometimes put the competitor at a disadvantage because they didn't have their own hands in the install and sometimes don't know how to fully present the car to it's potential.

Furthermore your interpretation of the rules for extreme is incorrect. The rule does not state anything about people that work for shops. It states very specifically about 12-volt manufacturers and distributors. Not retailers. And for competitors receiving free (not discounted) equipment. Few people understand that in many ways the consumer has the upper hand on purchasing equipment. Both new and used equipment can be found online for at or below dealer cost and even employee accomadation. Another reason that pro vs consumer was dropped with the new rule structure.

tijuana_no wrote:

After reviewing the past post and Stubbs arguments on this thread I take total resposability of Fry's mishappens and appologize to the comperitors present and Usaci .I repeat USACI did not had anything on my decitions .I was aware of Stubbs competing on that class he was the only and I discuss his plans and for coming year .I also commented to all the comperitors that I wanted to make it a fun weekend more of an itroduction for all of us and commited my self to continue to work with everyone involve to take more cars for world finals from this area and with that in mind .I try to introduce them to all the aspects of competing even to the scoring and totalling of sheets at that time I thought it was great that everyone gather toghether including the wifes to tally score sheets . But know I do take my full resposability and pull myself from Judging ,I thank USACI for all the trust they place on me as a judge even inviting me to judge finals .
I will only compete and act as a comperitor .

Don't pull yourself away from judging, from what I can tell you are one of the few people that is directly involved with USACi that's doing his best for SQ. What judges need is better guidelines to better themselves. Keep it up and help USACi improve.

gln305, I also agree with a lot of what you stated. Your experience was tainted by poor management at the local level. It's been an issue for quite some time now. Several of the directors and event managers in USACi don't even read or understand the SQ rules and don't care to. We absolutely need more judges training.

The rules and scoresheets work well when the judges and directors care to understand them and enforce them.

And I most definitely agree that Ruperto should continue judging SQ and grow the sport in his area. It's his directors that need to step up and do their job in that region.

Yes, Ruperto is a great guy, and him stepping down would be a great loss for the sport. He afterall, is what got me and all my friends into competing. And its new enthusiasm like this that will help the organization grow!

and his personality rocks. great for the competitors.

Thanx guy's , I really did not meant for this thread to go this way , but I will continue to work to help out .I love this sport and love helping out people and everything I do is to try enjoy it more.
I was just embarrass of all the little things at ones .

John Roberts , is right there should be more judging training and I which there was more judges .We should work into meeting and training the ones we have for all be at the same page.

Back to the Question . I really think all we need to do is to open some more areas of the score sheet for the intro section and mod .T hat will add more points to those classes.

after alot of thought im going to take time off from competitions and build a few hotrods and maybe compete in a few shows next year... Its my true passion and what I love...

My next full build only using cab from this... fenderless and huge motor...