Strictly my humble opinion.

I’m sorry folks but the proposed clamping idea may work for other organizations but not here in USACi. MWSPL uses it to determine max power and if that’s what works for them, so be it. It certainly appears as though a good number of our members have taken the opportunity to voice their opinions of the proposed procedure change and voiced their dismay. Whether they were able to attend the member’s meeting or not should not be considered relevant.

If, and I mean if the clamping proposal is a viable procedure for checking to see if there is a cheater amongst us then why not use it as an addition to our already existing protest procedure? I propose that only a legitimate protest ($1,000.00 cash in the hands of the head judge) would trigger the use of the “clamp”.

I may be crazy but I would much rather see USACi spending its time and effort finding ways to encourage retailer and manufacturer members to renew their embracing of USACi rather than wasting it trying to find a few “cheaters” who may not actually be cheating.

I realize that as a USACi show promoter I am acting inappropriately by posting an opinion that appears to be in conflict with our leadership but I feel it would be even more inappropriate to remain silent on this issue.

Please respond. If I’m too whacked out, let me know.

Mike Jaffe wrote:

I’m sorry folks but the proposed clamping idea may work for other organizations but not here in USACi. MWSPL uses it to determine max power and if that’s what works for them, so be it. It certainly appears as though a good number of our members have taken the opportunity to voice their opinions of the proposed procedure change and voiced their dismay. Whether they were able to attend the member’s meeting or not should not be considered relevant.

If, and I mean if the clamping proposal is a viable procedure for checking to see if there is a cheater amongst us then why not use it as an addition to our already existing protest procedure? I propose that only a legitimate protest ($1,000.00 cash in the hands of the head judge) would trigger the use of the “clamp”.

I may be crazy but I would much rather see USACi spending its time and effort finding ways to encourage retailer and manufacturer members to renew their embracing of USACi rather than wasting it trying to find a few “cheaters” who may not actually be cheating.

I realize that as a USACi show promoter I am acting inappropriately by posting an opinion that appears to be in conflict with our leadership but I feel it would be even more inappropriate to remain silent on this issue.

Please respond. If I’m too whacked out, let me know.

well..................

Mike im sorry I havent gotten back with you yet SIR.

I have stated my opinion me and my van will sit and wait

any other directors care to chime in on this or is this man on his own????????

Ok now, I would like to add my 2 cents to this post. Early on I posted the clamping idea sounded like rules from another org. , which was promptly deleted. If clamping is do determine cheaters, then cheaters should be banned, period. In the big picture over the course of a year, the numbe of competitors banned would be minimal and actually in the best interest of USACi.
Now, if it is to be a tool to level the playing field, better to level the playing field by real competitors that test-test-and retest in order to get the best score. We need to concentrate on getting newbies involved, rather than changing rules for the sake of one or two.
Next, rather than try to get more amp. manuf. by "clamping", why not have a sit down with them ( all that wish to attend ) and work with them and get their input on how we could all work to improve and save the competition scene.
Now, I am not even close to offering any technical input on accuracy of clamping, we do have a member who has a degree in our field. I think Matt Sibley could and should post a technical response on this issue, in laymans terms, as to the pros and cons of clamping. I for one feel we are trying to fix something that isn't broke, rather than concentrating on real issues, i.e. getting manuf. on board and create an atmosphere that will encourage newbies to get and stay involved.

sweet 1 more to go glad to see its not only us well some of us (thecompetitors) that see it this way as well

sanman wrote:

any other directors care to chime in on this or is this man on his own????????

Jeff, how many times have you posted here, only to find yourself "on your own?" If it's just you and me, then I enjoy the company!

lol haha true so true

Now you guys have company.

Well said Jaffe

Navi wrote:

Well said Jaffe

Thanks Scott. I just hope I'm on the right track.

I agree 100%! IDK all the ins and outs of the clamping but I just really would like to see more new people and have some competition! I came in late last year running stock 3001-up, and I noticed that only about three shows I had someone else running my class! Even at the heatwave I was the only one there! Kinda hard to be happy about a first place win when you are the only person in that class!

Mike Jaffe wrote:

I’m sorry folks but the proposed clamping idea may work for other organizations but not here in USACi. MWSPL uses it to determine max power and if that’s what works for them, so be it. It certainly appears as though a good number of our members have taken the opportunity to voice their opinions of the proposed procedure change and voiced their dismay. Whether they were able to attend the member’s meeting or not should not be considered relevant.

If, and I mean if the clamping proposal is a viable procedure for checking to see if there is a cheater amongst us then why not use it as an addition to our already existing protest procedure? I propose that only a legitimate protest ($1,000.00 cash in the hands of the head judge) would trigger the use of the “clamp”.

I may be crazy but I would much rather see USACi spending its time and effort finding ways to encourage retailer and manufacturer members to renew their embracing of USACi rather than wasting it trying to find a few “cheaters” who may not actually be cheating.

I realize that as a USACi show promoter I am acting inappropriately by posting an opinion that appears to be in conflict with our leadership but I feel it would be even more inappropriate to remain silent on this issue.

Please respond. If I’m too whacked out, let me know.

You are correct sir. You are acting improperly, but not for posting an opinion that appears to be in conflict with our leadership.

The problem is as a director you should call our leadership personally and find out what their actual position is on an issue before making a uniformed assumption as to what that position is and then positing against it on a public forum. (Hope that makes sense)

You have missed what several others have refused to acknowledge, particularly Jeff Sanford.

USACI is neither FOR NOR AGAINST the idea of clamping. We are experimenting to see if it is viable or not.

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....


Did I say it enough times?


EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

Maybe someone will get the point


EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

USACI's leadership, despite the ratings and ravings on the forum and assertions by people who have no clue, HAS NOT ADOPTED NOR IS PLANNING TO ADOPT CLAMPING!



EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....



Hope this get through to someone.

Bueler, Bueler, Bueler......

Can you hear me now?

Houston, we have a problem.


And in conclusion, READ MY LIPS........


Oooooppppps. I got to turn on the microphone... Let’s try it again.....


You are correct sir. You are acting improperly, but not for posting an opinion that appears to be in conflict with our leadership.

The problem is as a director you should call our leadership personally and find out what their actual position is on an issue before making an uniformed assumption as to what that position is and then positing against it on a public forum. (Hope that makes sense)

You have missed what several others have refused to acknowledge, particularly Jeff Sanford.

USACI is neither FOR NOR AGAINST the idea of clamping. We are experimenting to see if it is viable or not.

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....


Did I say it enough times?


EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

Maybe someone will get the point


EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

USACI's leadership, despite the ratings and ravings on the forum and assertions by people who have no clue, HAS NOT ADOPTED NOR IS PLANNING TO ADOPT CLAMPING!



EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....



And in conclusion, READ MY LIPS........

So, what do you guys think about clamping?


Seriously, we appreciate the input. Input, Input.

The attitude that has accompanied most of it on the forums however overshadows any point that was intended to be made.

Cereal with milk or cereal with vinegar?


Be part of a solution, not the problem.

USACI wrote:

Be part of a solution, not the problem.

That's exactly what I was trying to offer. And just to clarify, I thought it was you I was speaking to on the phone and in instant messages over the past week. My bad!

ahhhh even better

I have argued my point more with fellow competitors rather than usaci officials Ralph everytime someone brings up what they view or see as a viable point I reply with what i see as a viable negative tpo that point.

i see more and more people in the lanes this past year than in the last 2 so to me what solution are you seeking we are growing slowly, but growth is growth. If you are seeking a way to bring more manu's in thats not on the competitors or the way we do our thing in the lanes but more on usaci officials to bring them in.

and vinigar plzzzzzzzz

Heres some input ralph spend the money an get the clamps all the same obviously and send them out to everyone judge or whoever that host shows, make sure they are all calibrated at the same time by the same place to try an insure they all read damn near spot on with one another, then get all those peoples that will be running the meters (ac clamp an dmm) and have them trained on how to operate those meters to the full potential for what they will be doing with them which means how to get volts amps calculate imp rise and power. When you have done all that use this year as a test run trial period and see the results if its not working drop the idea, if it does seem to work then think about making it quicker and more feasable, as of right now since 2010 has briefly started dont dick with anything for this season that simple, because you will push people away new an old thats obvious. Spend more time on bringing in new talent like classes they wont get smoked in. I have listed an idea on that as well and got some feedback on that via pm.

IMHO I don't think that clamping is a good thing. It's not because of anything benificial to me, I am always low on power in USACi shows. I think now is not the time to do it. Maybe and only maybe if it can be worked out plan for it in 2011. There would have to be quite a restructuring of classification for power classes. Let everyone know BEFORE 2010 Finals. And have all the years show count on the same scale. With this being sorta offseason, a lot of people are redoing setups and whatnot, the timing is just not right. And delaying any decision for even longer isn't going to help.

I just dont think it is viable in the long run ... I understand Usaci reason for entertaining the idea but thats all.... But i just dont think it is viable in the long run like i said.. Build test test... and when you think your there ya better test some more before finals......

USACI wrote:

So, what do you guys think about clamping?


Seriously, we appreciate the input. Input, Input.

The attitude that has accompanied most of it on the forums however overshadows any point that was intended to be made.

Cereal with milk or cereal with vinegar?


Be part of a solution, not the problem.

I STILL THINK IF THATS THE DIRECTION WE ARE GOING LETS SPEND THIS YEAR TESTING IT OUT.... SO WE CAN WORK OUT ALL THE KINKS.... WHY NOT START IT IN OUR LOCAL CLASS SEE IF WE GROW AS A COMPANY.. IF WE SEE THE LOCAL CLASS START TO GROW WELL THEN ITS THE BEST IDEA EVER.... IF NOT THEN DONT CHANGE ANY THING....

i think we need to clamp. it will help level the playing field, not everyone can afford expensive amps, and this will help bring in new people to the sport.

how will it bring new people to the sport? What new people are going to buy like say a kicker amp for $800 vs somthing cheaper like a lanzar for $200? We all know the kicker will stomp the lanzar day in an day out and then what? Tell them to spend more money get better stuff? They wont want to come back knowing they have to spend more money, and how to even test? If you dont have the same clamps then your still screwed....at the 4X in arkansas Darvilles meter read 130 where jeffs read 90 thats only a 40 difference thats way off thats 7920watts vs 11440watts not even close an then what do you do? turn it down and hope it doesnt fall on its face? I understand the clamp idea an its decent, but lets be realistic its not geared to bring new people into the sport hands down that simple.

Great input by both Administrators. I think USACi needs to focus on other ways to get Manufacturer and comp. involve in this sport. There are other Manufacturer that makes speakers, battery etc, I don't see them jumping on board. Streat Beat has no Amplifier limit, I didn't see any Manufacture jumping on it. What about SQ? How many manufacture are on board? We need to focus on getting more people involve. I do my best at my shop to promote USACi competition and get new customers involve. This is something shop owners and competitors need to do. Some of our 12 Volt magazine is gone, hence less exposure to this sport. We need more ways to get exposure and get everyone involve.

P.S. MATT did a great job at finals. I didn't see any cheating at finals.

USACiSE wrote:

Now you guys have company.

I think I will join in now....Don't want my boys to be lonely

(kisses and hugs to Jaffe and Don)

USACI wrote:

Mike Jaffe wrote:

I’m sorry folks but the proposed clamping idea may work for other organizations but not here in USACi. MWSPL uses it to determine max power and if that’s what works for them, so be it. It certainly appears as though a good number of our members have taken the opportunity to voice their opinions of the proposed procedure change and voiced their dismay. Whether they were able to attend the member’s meeting or not should not be considered relevant.

If, and I mean if the clamping proposal is a viable procedure for checking to see if there is a cheater amongst us then why not use it as an addition to our already existing protest procedure? I propose that only a legitimate protest ($1,000.00 cash in the hands of the head judge) would trigger the use of the “clamp”.

I may be crazy but I would much rather see USACi spending its time and effort finding ways to encourage retailer and manufacturer members to renew their embracing of USACi rather than wasting it trying to find a few “cheaters” who may not actually be cheating.

I realize that as a USACi show promoter I am acting inappropriately by posting an opinion that appears to be in conflict with our leadership but I feel it would be even more inappropriate to remain silent on this issue.

Please respond. If I’m too whacked out, let me know.

You are correct sir. You are acting improperly, but not for posting an opinion that appears to be in conflict with our leadership.

The problem is as a director you should call our leadership personally and find out what their actual position is on an issue before making a uniformed assumption as to what that position is and then positing against it on a public forum. (Hope that makes sense)

You have missed what several others have refused to acknowledge, particularly Jeff Sanford.

USACI is neither FOR NOR AGAINST the idea of clamping. We are experimenting to see if it is viable or not.

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....


Did I say it enough times?


EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

Maybe someone will get the point


EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

USACI's leadership, despite the ratings and ravings on the forum and assertions by people who have no clue, HAS NOT ADOPTED NOR IS PLANNING TO ADOPT CLAMPING!



EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....



Hope this get through to someone.

Bueler, Bueler, Bueler......

Can you hear me now?

Houston, we have a problem.

And in conclusion, READ MY LIPS........


Oooooppppps. I got to turn on the microphone... Let’s try it again.....


You are correct sir. You are acting improperly, but not for posting an opinion that appears to be in conflict with our leadership.

The problem is as a director you should call our leadership personally and find out what their actual position is on an issue before making an uniformed assumption as to what that position is and then positing against it on a public forum. (Hope that makes sense)

You have missed what several others have refused to acknowledge, particularly Jeff Sanford.

USACI is neither FOR NOR AGAINST the idea of clamping. We are experimenting to see if it is viable or not.

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....


Did I say it enough times?


EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

Maybe someone will get the point


EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

USACI's leadership, despite the ratings and ravings on the forum and assertions by people who have no clue, HAS NOT ADOPTED NOR IS PLANNING TO ADOPT CLAMPING!



EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....



And in conclusion, READ MY LIPS........

I showed NASA this post they said they couldn't help....sorry

USACI wrote:

Mike Jaffe wrote:

I’m sorry folks but the proposed clamping idea may work for other organizations but not here in USACi. MWSPL uses it to determine max power and if that’s what works for them, so be it. It certainly appears as though a good number of our members have taken the opportunity to voice their opinions of the proposed procedure change and voiced their dismay. Whether they were able to attend the member’s meeting or not should not be considered relevant.

If, and I mean if the clamping proposal is a viable procedure for checking to see if there is a cheater amongst us then why not use it as an addition to our already existing protest procedure? I propose that only a legitimate protest ($1,000.00 cash in the hands of the head judge) would trigger the use of the “clamp”.

I may be crazy but I would much rather see USACi spending its time and effort finding ways to encourage retailer and manufacturer members to renew their embracing of USACi rather than wasting it trying to find a few “cheaters” who may not actually be cheating.

I realize that as a USACi show promoter I am acting inappropriately by posting an opinion that appears to be in conflict with our leadership but I feel it would be even more inappropriate to remain silent on this issue.

Please respond. If I’m too whacked out, let me know.

You are correct sir. You are acting improperly, but not for posting an opinion that appears to be in conflict with our leadership.

The problem is as a director you should call our leadership personally and find out what their actual position is on an issue before making a uniformed assumption as to what that position is and then positing against it on a public forum. (Hope that makes sense)

You have missed what several others have refused to acknowledge, particularly Jeff Sanford.

USACI is neither FOR NOR AGAINST the idea of clamping. We are experimenting to see if it is viable or not.

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....


Did I say it enough times?


EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

Maybe someone will get the point


EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

USACI's leadership, despite the ratings and ravings on the forum and assertions by people who have no clue, HAS NOT ADOPTED NOR IS PLANNING TO ADOPT CLAMPING!



EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....



Hope this get through to someone.

Bueler, Bueler, Bueler......

Can you hear me now?

Houston, we have a problem.


And in conclusion, READ MY LIPS........


Oooooppppps. I got to turn on the microphone... Let’s try it again.....


You are correct sir. You are acting improperly, but not for posting an opinion that appears to be in conflict with our leadership.

The problem is as a director you should call our leadership personally and find out what their actual position is on an issue before making an uniformed assumption as to what that position is and then positing against it on a public forum. (Hope that makes sense)

You have missed what several others have refused to acknowledge, particularly Jeff Sanford.

USACI is neither FOR NOR AGAINST the idea of clamping. We are experimenting to see if it is viable or not.

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....
EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....


Did I say it enough times?


EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

Maybe someone will get the point


EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

USACI's leadership, despite the ratings and ravings on the forum and assertions by people who have no clue, HAS NOT ADOPTED NOR IS PLANNING TO ADOPT CLAMPING!



EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....

EXPERIMENTING TO SEE IF IT IS VIABLE OR NOT....



And in conclusion, READ MY LIPS........

least if your going to type all of that make it PANKY..lol

Okay guys and gals, the gist of this post was to try to offer an alternative to clamping every system at every regional and Finals. Do I think that I offered a solution to what I consider a problem? Obviously not! As you could all see, Ralphie chewed my ass out (sorta) but some days just go like that.

My thought was to use clamping to verify the power of a legitimately protested system at Regional and/or Finals events. But then again, if, as I'm beginning to learn, the clamping procedure can also be incorrectly administered or cheated by our "wise men", then limiting its use to the major events would prove nothing.

So now, because I am a multi-tasker, I will spend the day watching football games and calling guys that I feel have the facts I need to present to our leader, whether in support or against the entire idea. Wish me luck.