Lack of Support for SQ vehicles or competitors

First topic message reminder :

I just want to say how disgusted the guys are that are trying to run sound quality vehicles with the organization. There is very little or no support for us and we are treated in most cases as unwanted step children by the organization. I have talked with other major contestant groups (you know who you are) outside of our group and they feel pretty much the same. That was even more obvious at a show today when one of our guys practically had the beg Ralph Randall to come over and judge his vehicle for SQ, the show was already over and SPL had been completed, and he got judged just minutes before trophies were handed out. Since he had been the only one in his class, I am sure Ralph was going to let it go and just hand him a trophy. Our guy was expecting much more than to pay money and get a trophy(especially when the show was hosted by the owner of the organization, he expected things to be top notch), a true competitor and sportsman wants the be judged and critiqued on his system, not just pay money and get a PLASTIC trophy.(Ralph had a hard time even finding a SQ judging sheet; Is this a organization that plans for,expects, or wants SQ contestants?)

Several of us showed up to a event is McComb Miss. earlier this year, and the judge wasn't even properly prepared, and his equipment wouldn't work, after paying and waiting ALL day he finally said that he couldn't make the equipment work and called off the contest. To SUPPOSEDLY make it worth the people's time that traveled so far, he was going to give some points for everyones trouble but that never happened.

We already pay more than SPL competitors to be judged for SQ (why is that anyway) but we are the least of the worries on a most of the judges lists, UNDOUBTEDLY including the owner of the organization!

Now we have been told that SQ may permanantly disappear from the contest next year, if not enough interest in it occurs, but we are not told HOW MUCH interest it needs. We are doing our part, with building a minimum of 6 new vehicles this year, with more in the works, but we do not feel welcome or important at most events. The exception to this is the events that Mike Darville hosts. There maybe more judges that we have not met that care as much as he does, so I don't want to leave those good judges out. All we know that he does try to make it a good event for everyone and puts as much emphasis on SQ as the SPL.

CAR STEREO IS SO MUCH MORE THAN BURPING A DISTORTED 75 Hz NOTE! Almost any half baked Chinese product can do that now days, with some of them burning up in the process, I.E. (fires and smoke at Finals last year) Ralph, you and Wayne Harris have turned this sport into what it is today and it sure isn't that much, it doesn't educate people to GOOD car stereo or promoting safe, clean, nice, USABLE systems (and don't forget drivable). Its about what's easy for you and how you pad your pocket book. I understand making money, don't think I don't, but you have made car stereo as about as ONE DIMENSIONAL as it can be. SPL isn't even what it used to be and sure isn't a measure of how GOOD a stereo system is or really how powerfull a system is, its just distortion at frequencies I wouldn't even call sub bass. Vehicles you allow into the contest today would have NEVER been allowed in to a show in the past in the condition they are in, which in alot of cases are PITIFUL, and some DANGEROUS!

This will probably get yanked off this site rather quickly and I will probably be banned and ridiculed for speaking what so many really want to say, but it is the TRUTH and I have not said anything past the truth and sure didn't use a vulgarity to do it. Thank you for reading!

Signed,
Robert (Ray) Rayfield
with support from:
Mike Flanagan
TJ Lacharite
not to leave anyone elses name out, but couldn't contact you for permission!


P.S. I believe and hope there is enough integrity in this organization that none of our vehicles suddenly turn major losers because of voicing an honest observation and opinion.

6APPEAL wrote:

MDietrich wrote:

Now before any newcomers think I have an axe to grind with Ralph, it's the furthest thing from the truth. Actually I like Ralph. We go back quite a way. I have had his back once or twice when he needed it. He has also cut me some slack when I really steped in it.

I only want him to make a move, either allow SQ to grow or just kill it and let the competitors find another venue.
Markey Dietrich

Since 1995 competitor, supporter, judge and general pain in the ass

As we've seen from BrianS's post above, competitors are already moving on to other venue's. I think you stated it correctly.

You beat me to the punch on that one Johnny. Very true.

I agree Markey, SPL is the big money maker and I get the feeling that the mind set is, if SQ crashes and burns so be it.
I have been around for a little while, however not a seasoned guy like most here, I wasnt able to get off the ground like I would have liked. Everytime I look at my wife she becomes pregnant. Several that post here have been passionate about taking SQ to the next level. I am sure those here and those that have moved on must feel like they are running in mud. Hope things turn around soon.

WOW...I LOVE IT...I HAVEN'T BEEN ON THIS FORUM OR TO A SHOW IN A LONG TIME AND I SEE NOTHING HAS CHANGED...SEE YALL SOON

LOL

Yea Mickey....LOL.....time to step up and contribute to the discussion (even though you been there and done that----prob even have the tshirt) or just sit on the "sidelines" and watch...


Todd
TCAudio
TeamTCA

Rick Sellers wrote:

Matt_Sibley wrote:

The past years when we allowed Rick to do Deep South Nationals we let him handle all SQ judging at the event. Apparently that caused issues and I apologize for the mishap and look forward to hearing the details regarding the situation. Thanks!

Matt please read this again and see if that sounds the way you wanted it to? Because if it is you threw me under the bus... When I was there just trying to help. Think about it.

Nope, not throwing you under the bus. If anything, its probably my fault. Because of the way the event was setup there wasn't always the best communication between the SPL judging tent and the SQ portion of the show. Sorry for the confusion, I certainly had no intention of making you sound bad. I was more referring to me not always having a clue of what stage of judging we were in or who had/hadn't been judged in SQ. This year it was all done together at one spot so I knew who needed what.

Has anyone ever considered that a large problem outside of the structural, organization, and support issues is a lack of knowledge in the general public? Here's my take on stereo contests (SQ and SPL alike).

There are those that with all the financial backing (free equipment, support from manufacturer's etc) will never win because they lack the knowledge to do so. In SPL, sure a lot of it is trial and error as is SQ, but that will only get you so far.

Our target market should be 16-23 year olds and then possibly another group at 30+ where it becomes a family fun event. When you're 16-23 chances are, you aren't married, may not have a house note, and are just worried about having fun and showing off. This age group could be attracted to an event if they knew it didn't take 10,000 in equipment and 20,000 in installation to be competitive.

Before I get off of my own point...it all starts with KNOWLEDGE! I've been on this soapbox with the SPL part of USACi for a while. I think young guys and shops alike would be interested in promoting shows with seminars. Invite the customers of the shop to a 2 hour acoustical training seminar for free, followed by a contest afterward where they can see these principles applied.

Create a scholarship class where there are equipment limits (perhaps have a manufacturer sponsor the class). Only open it up to high school students who are pursuing a college education. Promote learning, promote college, promote personal development. Unfortunately simply promoting SQ or SPL won't get far. There has to be "more to it" than what it is. Image is everything! A lot of that image begins with organization, professionalism, and a family friendly environment.

My parents hated car audio when I started, weren't a big fan during college, but had no choice but to respect the way I organized a team, helped out people, made sure some of the younger guys on the team went to college, and made sure my team members conducted themselves in a respectful manner at events.

To me, sure its about good sound, but it was more than that! It has to be more than that. This competition format should be a tool to reach our youth who may be headed the wrong direction. It's a way to steer people to the right path before they go too far down the wrong one.

Do you guys have any idea how a few words or a few hours in a shop with Todd Crowder or Chris Pate would affect a young person? There were several key people when I began competing that had a huge effect on me. Those people are now close friends who have watched me grow from a high school kid with a loud stereo to a professional in industry and a respected member of the community. We miss out on a real opportunity here! We need a new approach angle. As Markey said, if USACi were run like a business with new ideas and new personnel it could go in a different direction that would not only be more profitable but more beneficial to society which also improves the chances of organizations outside of car stereo getting involved and sinking some real $$$ into it. The problem is USACi's client base has changed, the economy/world has changed, its business plan has not. Businesses must constantly evolve or dissolve and be no more.

I agree with you Matt, you have expounded on some of the points I was trying to make earlier.

"This age group could be attracted to an event if they knew it didn't take 10,000 in equipment and 20,000 in installation to be competitive."


It is about education in a lot of ways, not just a few ways, and it takes more than just a couple of guys to make this education happen. The individual needs to be made aware that a good stereo system for minimal dollars CAN compete and is attainable to him, but seeing these exotic car stereos and their associated price tags are intimidating. They are great to have and the owners have worked hard to get them there, but that is mostly all we have left in SQ is the "Old Guard" with the exotic, expensive systems. It is our duty as much as it is the organization to promote the little guy with the small pocket book and get him interested, instead of sitting back and looking over our noses and saying "Look what I have!".

The organization has it's faults and issues and MOST definitely needs a overhaul somehow, but the SQ group shouldn't just sit on their thumbs either, they, we, have a job to do also. If you don't want to help make it better you don't have a right to complain.

I'm afraid that most of the guys I know and/or have talked to feel that USACI is a lost cause, they are tired of dealing with it and the same or simular issues over so many years. Most are strongly considering looking to other venues and organizations to come in and take over where USACI seems unwilling to go. They are waiting to see what happens in the last part of the season, but most are finally going to give up and making new and alternate plans for next year. This could be USACI's last chance to pull something together. And as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, that it's not just SQ guys bitching there are other posts on other threads inside this forum showing the frustration of the SPL guys on some of the same organizational issues we have discussed.

linearpower wrote:

You know I messaged Ralph in private, last Friday with a couple other issues that have not been brought public (yet). I wanted to give him a chance to respond and act on them as he said he would if contacted. I have yet to hear anything back from him. It is near impossible to even get anything more than an answering machine at the office, and if you get more than that you can't get through to Ralph 99.9% of the time, someone tells you he is unavailable.

479-283-9736 is my cell 24/7. Everyone has it!

So...I just went to a USACi show in Beloit WI and I was the only SQ car there. And for that matter most of the previous show Ive been to I was the only SQ car. I have tried everything I could to get people out to compete (at least on a small scale). I guess there are a number of propblems but i will tell you all this (from a consumer perspective). Getting the product is not so much the issue...its the amount of money that someone has to spend on a stellar SQ INSTALL. Labor costs on an average is about 90 buck an hour. Who in the hell wants to pay 200-400 bucks on just kicks and Lord knows how much on wiring and the time that it takes to place the drivers and meet all the detailed requirements for a excellent SQ car. You can make all the incentives and changes big or small to get people in SQ but the bottom line is that people would like to...but just dont have the time and/or resources to put in their cars when the the values of the rewards are super super less than the value that they put in the car. Hmmmm...should I get this 500.00 Bit One OR should i pay my rent? These are damn legitimate questions and concerns. And honestly I dont think the answer is to dumb down the requirements of a great SQ car or show car. Thats what the people come to see...not some crap just thrown together. Most of the people that I know who were doing SQ years ago just dont have the time, money, or interest in doing it anymore! Now the BIG question is...those that are left...WHAT THE HELL ARE WE GONNA DO! Hopefully not turn valuable energy into a b***tchn session!

Hey Muhammed,

Those are gret points. I agree that the ROI is a deterent for most people that want to get started. Many many many moons ago when I began in car audio. I went into a shop to see about having an install done. I was a freshman in highschool and had no money for crazy install that the shop wanted to do. So I taught myself. I think if there was a siminar that would teach the newbies the basics so that they can do that part themselves and perhaps take it to the pros for the finishing of the build. Example would be the wiring, sound deadening. Then have a pro do the fiberglass but maybe let the customer watch them work and ask questions.

Teaching yourself is exactly how I got started too. I was fortunte enough in the early days to have a dad that liked sound as much as me and we started together as a hobby and both learned together. I mean its a learning process. That's for sure. I was able to go on and turn it into a business but the past 8 or 9 years have been tough and getting tougher all the time. Economy is bad especially where I live. Not everyone wants, needs, or cares about upgrading their stereo. It is what it is. OEM equipped cars are much better than they used to be and the majority of people are content with what they have or just can't afford to upgrade. Plain and simple. I see it every day.

The soundoff scene has always only really attracted a small percentage of the people anyway. I am already into the second generation of alot of former competitors and these guys don't care or have the drive to compete in audio competition like their parents. Sure they want nice sound but could care less about all the bs that goes along with it. Make it sound damn good and look clean too. That's all most of them want.

One thing to ask is why do you generally always see decent, consistent turn-out at car shows? Doesn't matter what kind either (classic, street rod, tuner, late-model, whatever). Some of these people even drive a few hundred miles to attend an event. Then you even have the "brand-type" shows (Ford Mustang, Super Chevy, Camaro, Corvette, Mopar, etc). You show up, clean your car, open it up, kick back in a lawn chair and maybe fire up the grill, and don't have to talk to anybody unless you want. You will see people telling other spectators about their rides, sure BUT no judge interaction. I think this is typically because cars are judged on "visual" aspects of each unique ride (NO BIAS). And you usually don't see soar losers either.

Sound-offs are always what they have been, just fewer of them and for the most part unorganized which adds more to the participants NOT WANTING TO COME BACK AGAIN. This is a big factor of major decline in recent years. If there were only a way to streamline the actual judging process and offer MORE divisions to allow true NEWBIES into the sport. I mean less stress on all the BS (like wiring pics, etc). Doesn't mean the vehicle can be a fire hazard but just a more streamlined scoresheet. We have INTRO now which isn't bad, but it's only 1 class and it includes SPL (pros and cons to each). We really need more "sound" only divisions where the install is not a factor. There are tons of ideas that we could talk about for weeks. USACi has the criteria of only offering 10 total SQ classes, mainly due to lack of participation, trophy costs, judging, etc. Bottom line, each organization needs to promote and find new ways of inticing future competitors and NOT rely on all of us (new and old-school alike) to make these things happen. This costs money. Most don't want to spend/invest it. To me it is no different than spending big $$$ every month on the radio or billboard if you are a retailer.

But yes I do agree with possible new guys being strongly discouraged from competing now with the way things are, seeing multiple thousand dollar installs and realizing that is what they will have to do to be competitive. It is not fair and will never draw in new blood. We are all witness to that as it has unfolded before our eyes. We have what we have now, at least for this year, if it doesn't get even smaller next year (if its even still here). Most of us have done our part to try and revive SQ competition but it's NOT solely on us to fix it all.


Todd
TCAudio
TeamTCA

I don't know if I have any answers...I can only give my suggestions. Right now it seems like car audio is like a bad relationship...it's all jacked up! I'm a die hard car audio guy and anybody who knows me knows that. But I cant keep going to shows and I'm the only sq car there. Maybe if retailers and shops could identify local people who are interested in competing and come up with ways to help them with their product and/or install and require by contract that they do a number of shows. It sounds sort of like a sponsorship but lets be real...do i need to give names of basic and advanced consumer cars that got help from a retailer or store? Maybe if it was contractual in store credit line which could lead to direct work with a retail company like jl focal or soundstream. At the same time maybe local shops could do an educational class on car audio once a month for an hour or two. Maybe that would be good. If a store or shop in the Midwest area wanted to do that I would teach the class for free. I love teaching about car audio...I'm just speaking for myself.