Lack of Support for SQ vehicles or competitors

First topic message reminder :

I just want to say how disgusted the guys are that are trying to run sound quality vehicles with the organization. There is very little or no support for us and we are treated in most cases as unwanted step children by the organization. I have talked with other major contestant groups (you know who you are) outside of our group and they feel pretty much the same. That was even more obvious at a show today when one of our guys practically had the beg Ralph Randall to come over and judge his vehicle for SQ, the show was already over and SPL had been completed, and he got judged just minutes before trophies were handed out. Since he had been the only one in his class, I am sure Ralph was going to let it go and just hand him a trophy. Our guy was expecting much more than to pay money and get a trophy(especially when the show was hosted by the owner of the organization, he expected things to be top notch), a true competitor and sportsman wants the be judged and critiqued on his system, not just pay money and get a PLASTIC trophy.(Ralph had a hard time even finding a SQ judging sheet; Is this a organization that plans for,expects, or wants SQ contestants?)

Several of us showed up to a event is McComb Miss. earlier this year, and the judge wasn't even properly prepared, and his equipment wouldn't work, after paying and waiting ALL day he finally said that he couldn't make the equipment work and called off the contest. To SUPPOSEDLY make it worth the people's time that traveled so far, he was going to give some points for everyones trouble but that never happened.

We already pay more than SPL competitors to be judged for SQ (why is that anyway) but we are the least of the worries on a most of the judges lists, UNDOUBTEDLY including the owner of the organization!

Now we have been told that SQ may permanantly disappear from the contest next year, if not enough interest in it occurs, but we are not told HOW MUCH interest it needs. We are doing our part, with building a minimum of 6 new vehicles this year, with more in the works, but we do not feel welcome or important at most events. The exception to this is the events that Mike Darville hosts. There maybe more judges that we have not met that care as much as he does, so I don't want to leave those good judges out. All we know that he does try to make it a good event for everyone and puts as much emphasis on SQ as the SPL.

CAR STEREO IS SO MUCH MORE THAN BURPING A DISTORTED 75 Hz NOTE! Almost any half baked Chinese product can do that now days, with some of them burning up in the process, I.E. (fires and smoke at Finals last year) Ralph, you and Wayne Harris have turned this sport into what it is today and it sure isn't that much, it doesn't educate people to GOOD car stereo or promoting safe, clean, nice, USABLE systems (and don't forget drivable). Its about what's easy for you and how you pad your pocket book. I understand making money, don't think I don't, but you have made car stereo as about as ONE DIMENSIONAL as it can be. SPL isn't even what it used to be and sure isn't a measure of how GOOD a stereo system is or really how powerfull a system is, its just distortion at frequencies I wouldn't even call sub bass. Vehicles you allow into the contest today would have NEVER been allowed in to a show in the past in the condition they are in, which in alot of cases are PITIFUL, and some DANGEROUS!

This will probably get yanked off this site rather quickly and I will probably be banned and ridiculed for speaking what so many really want to say, but it is the TRUTH and I have not said anything past the truth and sure didn't use a vulgarity to do it. Thank you for reading!

Signed,
Robert (Ray) Rayfield
with support from:
Mike Flanagan
TJ Lacharite
not to leave anyone elses name out, but couldn't contact you for permission!


P.S. I believe and hope there is enough integrity in this organization that none of our vehicles suddenly turn major losers because of voicing an honest observation and opinion.

Markey, Todd and others have made some great post. Wonder if anyone is reading them. Probably just figure look its the SQ guys b*tching and when are they going to figure it out that we don't give a sh*t.

I started this new season off trying to be positive and a go getter. That went down the tubes quickly. I plan to attend one more show and that is it. At this point what finals I attend is up the air.

Must suck for manufactures now. Most of the sh*t the SPL guys are running is not main stream stuff anymore.

I see more stuff from the small online companies than I do any of the big companies in the lanes.

Looks like that marketing plan when south some years ago.LOL

Stuff you see now is RD, DD, AA, DD, Fi, AQ

db drive is the only larger company I ever remember seeing in the lanes. Maybe some Rockford stuff on occasion or Kicker.

Would be nice if they had one guy that new SQ judging at the local shows new guys could get some decent feedback. If you want feedback anymore you have to attend Regional or Finals event.

Most the new guys are not going to have a friend around the corner to critic their system.

Well that is all true guys. Heatwave in Austin is coming up. There are going to be some great SQ cars there. I know for a fact Todd is bringing a 3 cars down, Alex and his guys from down south are bringing a bunch of great cars, Mark Eldridge is coming as well as some of the guys from Rob's shop. You mix that in with some good judges....(I know that there are two great judges lined up) and we should be able to have a great SQ event with at least 30-40 cars. Afterward we can all die of heat exhaustion.

Alright I just found this post and I have to chime in, Linear Power you said one of your guys was judged just before trophies presentation well at the ONLY USACi SQ event out here on the west coast this year I was waiting in my car to be judged and I see people walking around with trophies and I found out the show was over and I went to the judge to find out whats up and he completely forgot about me (I was the only SQ competitor). I am an SPL competitor (but I bow to both SPL and SQ gods, and anyone who saw my little blue Mazda at finals last year can tell you I was demoing only Taylor Swift and Michael Jackson all day), I am an old school SQ guy but due to lack of shows out here I do SPL and when I heard USACi was adding street-Q I was all for it (I won DB DRAG psyclone - amateur last years finals, which is a lot like street Q). I have talked to Jaffe about SQ out here and he told me had someone to judge SQ cars for him but the few shows he offered SQ at no one showed up so he stopped offering it. Unfortunately out here on the west coast SPL is where it is at and for the very reason that was already brought up, alot of companies are out there to cater to SPL guys at lower prices because in all honesty, and I use this as only an example, a Rockford T2500.1BD retails for $1600 and I can go to Audioques' website and get a 20,000 watt amp for $1700 shipped so as an SPL guy what should I go with. Another problem I see is manufacturer support or lack there of I mean anyone remember which manufacturers were at finals last year? I do remember the "hallway" that they put the SQ cars in at finals, I finally saw the SQ cars when I went for a hot dog and that is just sad for the SQ guys. I am competing in the street-Q class at finals this year so you guys can add 1 more vehicle to the SQ tally but I have no idea where I will be put since I will be doing both SPL and SQ and I for one hope SQ remains because lets be honest that is where car audio competition started

Looking forward to that heat Chris. We are definitely coming so chalk up one more SQ car to add to the mix.

SQ might be a dying breed, but only the ones that are willing to nurse that breed will be the reason that SQ lives on.

I have only competed in SQ my entire run of competition starting back in 86. I have never even gone to the dark side once. I bleed SQ, so when I hear of someone having a bad show, I worry about the future of the sport. I see some pretty diehard people here on this thread that will be willing to promote SQ in their areas. This thread needs to live! Thanks for all the debating guys! Excellent read so far!

This is great! To see all these champions of sq coming together to support our sport! Ive talked with each of you in the not too distant past and we all feel the same way THERE NEEDS TO BE CHANGE! And I think this is the begining! Chris, what are the chances those vehicles coming to THW can or are qualified to be at world finals? If all the vehicles that are gonna be there can go to shreveport we would have a great turn out for finals. Also, Im gonna talk to Ray and some of our team members about the judges training your having in the lone star state. It should be a great tool not just for judges but to help competitors to know what they are being judged on!

Mike Flanagan wrote:

This is great! To see all these champions of sq coming together to support our sport! Ive talked with each of you in the not too distant past and we all feel the same way THERE NEEDS TO BE CHANGE! And I think this is the begining! Chris, what are the chances those vehicles coming to THW can or are qualified to be at world finals? If all the vehicles that are gonna be there can go to shreveport we would have a great turn out for finals. Also, Im gonna talk to Ray and some of our team members about the judges training your having in the lone star state. It should be a great tool not just for judges but to help competitors to know what they are being judged on!

Agree that it's good to see more SQ folks speaking up, especially champs/former champs of the organization. Not just the "unknown", small time competitors. But, we are still just a small voice or chump change within the organization. We currently do not represent a large enough precentage of profits to really be paid attention to IMHO.

You read my mind on the training Mike. I'm trying to figure out how to arrange my schedule to attend. If we pooled together it would be much easier/cheaper. I could take the kids seats out of the truck and carry 4 with plenty of room for luggage/stuff, but fuel milage would not be fantastic.

6APPEAL wrote:

Mike Flanagan wrote:

This is great! To see all these champions of sq coming together to support our sport! Ive talked with each of you in the not too distant past and we all feel the same way THERE NEEDS TO BE CHANGE! And I think this is the begining! Chris, what are the chances those vehicles coming to THW can or are qualified to be at world finals? If all the vehicles that are gonna be there can go to shreveport we would have a great turn out for finals. Also, Im gonna talk to Ray and some of our team members about the judges training your having in the lone star state. It should be a great tool not just for judges but to help competitors to know what they are being judged on!

Agree that it's good to see more SQ folks speaking up, especially champs/former champs of the organization. Not just the "unknown", small time competitors. But, we are still just a small voice or chump change within the organization. We currently do not represent a large enough precentage of profits to really be paid attention to IMHO.

You read my mind on the training Mike. I'm trying to figure out how to arrange my schedule to attend. If we pooled together it would be much easier/cheaper. I could take the kids seats out of the truck and carry 4 with plenty of room for luggage/stuff, but fuel milage would not be fantastic.

Look at the bright side here about the training. This course is prior to TWO big time shows. First the 3x USAC show and then the SQ Invitational as well. If you have a competitive car, you would be doing yourself a disservice bringing a car you don't compete with. There will be some top notch cars at this show, some world champs, some regional champs, and some soon to be World Champs. The pure quality of the competition will be very difficult to match, IN ANY ORG!

You come to learn what we judges are judging you on, then take that knowledge, tune your car overnight, and then compete the next day. It is a Win Win situation. Plus, it gets SQ closer to staying with more and more competition. This show is going to be huge! I can't wait!

I agree that it's a fantastic learning opportunity. It's just a matter of arranging the family, work and money (there's that word again!) schedules.

Yea John same here with the money thing. I remember teaching a few of these with John Hollingsworth and Ray back in the day. These were real good ways to turn my "young scull full of mush" into something worth having. I really think education is definently the start to turning this whole thing around! I hope the SQ judges from our area plan on attending too.

I know all the cars that are coming to THW will be at USACI finals....as well as many more.

BrianS wrote:

Wonder if anyone is reading them.

I am reading them ALL and understand your concerns. I wish I could go to the show on August 21st, I want to learn as much as I can about SQ to help be a better judge. I have a show that weekend in Shreveport and working on Finals while I am there.

I do however bring a SQ judge, when Ruperto can make it, you know him as tijuana_no.

He does come to all my larger events in Texas, which I have listed below:

Team Big'Un's show is in Waco on August 15th and I will have a SQ judge there. (Several guys from Mexico and surrounding areas come to this one)

Fry's in Webster, TX Nov 7th (A Texas Finals thing I do each year with Cash Prizes and TALL trophys - Smaller SQ but hope it grows bigger)

Turkey Drag the first weekend of December in Tyler, TX. (Had almost 10 last year, I believe)

I hope some of you can make it to the shows I listed, just to see your just as important to us as the SPL guys

Chris's Studio Civic wrote:

I know all the cars that are coming to THW will be at USACI finals....as well as many more.

Who is judging SQ at Heatwave?

I am going (as a spectator) but just to bring some trophys to Team Big'Uns/DB Drive for their upcoming show in Waco. I can't haul that many in 1 trip even with a 20 ft trailer...lol

The judges for Heatwave are Joe Wallis and Joel from Shane's Crew.

Yup Yup...finalized today. Looking forward to this show.

Black writing (Ray Rayfield)

Red writing (Ralph Randall)





I just want to say how disgusted the guys are that are trying to run sound quality vehicles with the organization. There is very little or no support for us and we are treated in most cases as unwanted step children by the organization. I have talked with other major contestant groups (you know who you are) outside of our group and they feel pretty much the same.



USACI is and has been dedicated to SQ since the organization started. USACI SQ takes up about 40% of USACI’s resources but actually accounts for less that 2% of competitors. Countless hours were spent this year re-writing the rules and offering discounts (free entry to new SQ guys and free SQ shows for retailers) and with little positive response.



That was even more obvious at a show today when one of our guys practically had the beg Ralph Randall to come over and judge his vehicle for SQ, the show was already over and SPL had been completed, and he got judged just minutes before trophies were handed out. Since he had been the only one in his class, I am sure Ralph was going to let it go and just hand him a trophy.



Incorrect. I spoke to the competitor earlier in the day SEVERA TIMES and told him I was the only judge and would have to judge him last. I not only judges him but I took out extra time to sit on the car with him, tell him everything I heard, gave him tips and pointers about how to improve his system, and then listened more while he adjusted his processor and tried different tracks from different cd’s. This person, THE ONLY SQ CAR AT THE ENIRE EVENT, received 15 times more of my time and attention than did any SPL car there. He received extra time and effort and my reward was this rant. Once again not a promotional bell ringer for making the effort in SQ.

I had no intention of not judging him and to insinuate anything different is improper and offensive. I would suggest you ask him about what I have said here as we both know it is 100% correct.



Our guy was expecting much more than to pay money and get a trophy(especially when the show was hosted by the owner of the organization, he expected things to be top notch), a true competitor and sportsman wants the be judged and critiqued on his system, not just pay money and get a PLASTIC trophy.(Ralph had a hard time even finding a SQ judging sheet; Is this a organization that plans for,expects, or wants SQ contestants?)



See above. This person received everything you said he did not and more.




Several of us showed up to a event is McComb Miss. earlier this year, and the judge wasn't even properly prepared, and his equipment wouldn't work, after paying and waiting ALL day he finally said that he couldn't make the equipment work and called off the contest. To SUPPOSEDLY make it worth the people's time that traveled so far, he was going to give some points for everyones trouble but that never happened.



I was not here but can check into this. Funny the first complaint is on the forums, not to the USACI office where it can do some good.

We already pay more than SPL competitors to be judged for SQ (why is that anyway) but we are the least of the worries on a most of the judges lists, UNDOUBTEDLY including the owner of the organization!



You pay the same price at most events and your guy at my show paid the same as well. If you are charged more it is because it takes 15 time the amount of time to judge SQ as SPL and one judge can do 100 SPL cars in a day but it would take 20 judges to do the same number of Sq cars. 20 judges, 20 lunches, in some case 10 hotels rooms, add in the trophies and you find USACI pays more to judge an SQ car than what the entry fees bring in most cases. Yet we still support SQ. Once again you attack me with false accusations. I have not spoke to you in nearly 10 years (other than a short hey, how ya been) and the first contact we have is a scathing review, bases on falsehoods. WOW

Now we have been told that SQ may permanantly disappear from the contest next year, if not enough interest in it occurs, but we are not told HOW MUCH interest it needs. We are doing our part, with building a minimum of 6 new vehicles this year, with more in the works, but we do not feel welcome or important at most events. The exception to this is the events that Mike Darville hosts. There maybe more judges that we have not met that care as much as he does, so I don't want to leave those good judges out. All we know that he does try to make it a good event for everyone and puts as much emphasis on SQ as the SPL.



Darville? I will stay away from that one altogether. SQ has been on the decline for years, USACI needs and wants more support and has been working hard. We are not dropping SQ for any reason so the rumors need to stop. We will not however be able to extra staff to SQ events for the average of .25 cars per show in SQ. We will continue to promote and support and will expand staff when demand is justified by supply. Your six new cars is a great start but we need more people to do the same so we can rebuild SQ. Team TCA is doing a good job as well in as far as traveling and participating. That said, we did a USACI 3X in Durant, Ok a couple weeks ago. This event is less than 5 hours drive from more than 80% of the USACI SQ competitors in the Midwest and more than 40% of USACI SQ competitors in the entire USA. Out of 40 + cars two (2) I think were SQ and both were local! Not one regular SQ guy ad I know of at least 5 who live within 150 miles. How are we to equate that? I do show in the same town as National Champions and they do not bother to show. That is commitment.

CAR STEREO IS SO MUCH MORE THAN BURPING A DISTORTED 75 Hz NOTE! Almost any half baked Chinese product can do that now days, with some of them burning up in the process, I.E. (fires and smoke at Finals last year) Ralph, you and Wayne Harris have turned this sport into what it is today and it sure isn't that much, it doesn't educate people to GOOD car stereo or promoting safe, clean, nice, USABLE systems (and don't forget drivable).



And all this insight from the SPL King who is famous for loud monsters like the infamous Linear Power bread van. Lest no be hypocritical.



Its about what's easy for you and how you pad your pocket book.



You have not a clue. My pocket book is filled by businesses unrelated to car audio. USACI, particularly SQ have not been a profit center for me in years. You have improper information and once again are insulting me without cause. You want my P&L for the last 5 years? You would get a chock I am sure.



I understand making money, don't think I don't, but you have made car stereo as about as ONE DIMENSIONAL as it can be. SPL isn't even what it used to be and sure isn't a measure of how GOOD a stereo system is or really how powerfull a system is, its just distortion at frequencies I wouldn't even call sub bass. Vehicles you allow into the contest today would have NEVER been allowed in to a show in the past in the condition they are in, which in alot of cases are PITIFUL, and some DANGEROUS!



This will probably get yanked off this site rather quickly and I will probably be banned and ridiculed for speaking what so many really want to say, but it is the TRUTH and I have not said anything past the truth and sure didn't use a vulgarity to do it. Thank you for reading!



I will not delete this post as leaving it here for all to read allows people to take it in and make their own decisions. What you have said here may have some bits of truth but most of it is incorrect, slanderous, and personally insulting. You sir are wrong in most (not all) of your assumptions. Given you have not been involved in USACI or even competition as far as I am aware over the past 10 to 15 years I can understand and even forgive some of your misstatements. I just wish you would have the decency to give me a call before ranting several pages about how bad I am without any knowledge to support your assumptions. I am more disappointed than I am mad.



Signed,
Robert (Ray) Rayfield
with support from:
Mike Flanagan
TJ Lacharite
not to leave anyone elses name out, but couldn't contact you for permission!


P.S. I believe and hope there is enough integrity in this organization that none of our vehicles suddenly turn major losers because of voicing an honest observation and opinion.



All vehicles will be judged equally and fairly at all USACI events. Nothing that has been said here will have any bearing on anything that happens in the lanes. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, baseless or not, and everyone is entitled to fair judging at all USACI events.



Ralph Randall

USACI.





PS: And here I am again, spending more than two hours responding to an SQ related issue about one car at an event that featured one SQ car. And despite your assertion to the contrary, I love SQ and am happy to dedicate this time to support SQ and set the record straight. Sq has the support of the organization, not it needs the TRUE support of the competitors who want SQ to become the major part of the sport is used to be.



A personal note: Ray, I sincerely hope you are not offended by my responses here and that you do not hold it against USACI as an organization. I assumed your attacks on a public forum was an indication that you wanted it all out in public for everyone to see and in fact wanted to hear my response in that same public forum. I have nothing against you personally and wish your competition team the best of luck in the judging lanes.

Thank you Ralph for clearing all that up

There are two sides to everything. I know USACI is not perfect but we are trying our best with the toold we have.

if all this is so true why are there judges that will not run SQ at a show i was at a show a few months ago and the judge said that he does not do SQ at his shows

First of all I have been at every event I spoke of, except the one you hosted north of Kansas City two weeks ago, if it is anything in that part un-true I will apoligize, but I received my information from someone I have known and never knew to lie to me for over 25 years.

Secondly, I am not the only person or the only group that feels the same way, look at the other posts, everyone has stories and feelings pretty much the same. I have not entered your contests in a long time, but I have been supporting people that do, and have been to almost every contest in this area this year in support of our group and went to most contest that Todd Crowder supported in Ark.

As far as the vehicles I have entered, yes I have been doing this much longer than you have had a contest, I started in car audio contests when Wayne Harris was still competing in contests, before he even had the Hurse, I believe it was a tan cutlass or something like that. I have even written judging rules and judged contests. I worked the Power Wars contests for David Lee Marketing during the same period George Reed was running Thunder on Wheels, so I am well aware what it took to judge vehicles for SQ. I was willing to spend my day and hard time to judge these vehicles because they worked equally as hard to get their vehicles there. they should feel important. I spent many long summer days sitting in a SR Superstore or other dealers parking lot, running contest until after dark judging by myself.

As far as my personal vehicles, everyone of my vehicles including the breadtruck SOUNDED GOOD, LOOKED GOOD, was drivable and in all other ways a usable vehicle and could do BOTH SQ and SPL. So I still stick by the opinion that the contest is more than a distorted 75 Hz note, and that all contests have their roots in SQ more than SPL. I think we should have both SQ and SPL, but not the SPL of today, thats my personal opinion not a fact, a truth, or a lie, just a opinion but one that a lot of others have too.

As far as canceling SQ that information has been coming from everywhere, it did not start with me, I am the first to really have the guts to put it on paper as such. The 40 car thing at finals was information gathered thru Team TCA. You have several others that have posted here that have heard simular things and a few that said they have heard it from you that you were going to get rid of SQ or majorly change it.

As far as McComb Ms show, I know that Randal Johnson and TJ Lacharite both have called in about their points not being given from that experience. I believe your judges name was Greg...?

There is a whole list of people that have been to the other shows that I described events happening that can back up EVERYTHING I said about the events, I WAS there and THEY were there.

About the number of SQ vehicles, There is no effort to gather more contestants to make it more profitable (read these post that others have to say, not just mine) if the atmosphere was more condusive for a contestant maybe you would have more, if most of your directors choose not to even offer SQ how can we get more contestants. As far as price we paid $55.00 to get into Scrapin, SPL guys paid $45.00. I know this for a fact because we all paid the 45.00 and then were told we had to pay 10.00 more when they found out we were there for SQ. I have plenty of others that can back that up. Why not just raise the price on SPl to match then? This price is another stumbling block to limit people from wanting to try SQ, or continually run SQ.

As far as contacting you, I know you are busy and your office personnel defers most of your calls, maybe I should have left my name and a call back request.

As far as un-truths, the only thing I cannot testify to is the events in Kansas City(Sadelia Mo), no I was not there but recieved information from what I would call a reliable source, everything else has got multiple witnesses too. And seeing how things have unfolded at other events I would not have a hard time believing a bad experience.

I am not trying to personally attack you Ralph, just trying to bring all of the frustrations felt by the majority of the SQ contestants to light, and if anything good can happen from these posts it would be great. But it is easy to see the frustration you have in dealing with SQ contestants in the responses you, yourself has given. You say we eat up too much of your time and energy and return not much, mostly because our numbers are not large enough, and our numbers are not increasing enough (we are doing our best as a group to bring more vehicles into the contest) but we need your part in this too. If the majority of Directors don't have, allow, or not willing to have a SQ section to thier contests that is counter productive to adding new SQ contestants. The cards whether you mean it to be or not are stacked against us, yet we keep trying. The decision of most of your Directors not to do SQ, puts us in an unfair position for adding new people if they can't find a show that will allow them. I feel there is a lot more good information in my posts that you are over looking.

I was the one at the show in Sedalia, MO and when I tried to register for the show, Ralph told me he did not have any SQ scoresheets. He did tell me that if he couldn't find any he would get some made at Kinko's or someplace like that. I went back several times asking if he ever found any sheets and was told no each time. If he told me he would judge me at the end of the show, I didn't hear him.

All I knew was:
A: An announcement said the show was ending at 3:00pm.

B: It was 2:30pm and I still wasn't registered.

After the last SPL car went through, Ralph did take my money, put me in the computer, and used my scoresheet from Scrapin the Coast to write my scores on. He did a thorough job evaluating my system, gave me constructive criticism (advice) on how to improve, and listened to my truck with the processor on and off and told me which sound he preferred, and why he preferred it.

Now...having said all that...I do agree that something needs to be done about the organizational skills of USACi. I cannot comprehend going to a show as a judge, and not having the materials I need to be able to perform my duties effectively. I understand that things happen...I don't expect things to be perfect. It just seems like more times than not, the SQ portion of the shows is an afterthought.

I wholeheartedly agree with Ray on everything he's said and back him 100%.

Richard Nye

One thing Ralph doesn't have a concept of "the loyal opposition".

Anytime you voice a negative opinion, even though you have the best intentions, it is a personal attack as seen through his eyes.

Been in that camp for years......lol

Markey Dietrich

USACi supporter, competitor, judge since 1994

Yeah...I didn't read any of that like an attack...they are paying customers that are approaching the customer service desk.

MDietrich wrote:

One thing Ralph doesn't have a concept of "the loyal opposition".

Anytime you voice a negative opinion, even though you have the best intentions, it is a personal attack as seen through his eyes.

Been in that camp for years......lol

Markey Dietrich

USACi supporter, competitor, judge since 1994

Typical reaction to negative opinions, critical analysis, constructive criticism, whatever you want to call it. Instead of using this as a platform to open discussion to improve or eliminate the problems within the organization, it's far easier to go into defense mode.

Just as Jsketoe put it, I'm a PAYING CUSTOMER. No one wants to go to a resturant and be shoved into some back corner or given a table by the dumpster and basically forgotten about, until it's time for the check.

In Rays defense his name was not the only one at the bottom of that thread and until your post, Ralph , there were about seven days of folks who agreed with it(you were the first to disagree)!

Look all were saying is quit putting sq on the back burner! Its hard to get new blood interested in sq when your put out by the trailors('10 Showfest), put in the hall/lobby (so people can see your ride for free on their way to buy tickets for the "REAL" show inside 2009 WORLD FINALS), put at the end of the day(your show in MO) or told "We are judging SQ tomorrow" only to come back and be told "all the judges are gone but we will give you your money back"('09 Scrapin the Coast)! On that last one i had a very good friend of mine who had just finished his car to compete at that show get told that. Needless to say he wont be back!

I think we should consider putting back some form of rules and ethics board in place. That way Ralph wouldnt be "bothered" with stuff like this.

And Ralph you know as well as everyone else its almost impossible to get you or anyone else in the usaci office. Been that way for years. Besides i thought thats what these sights were for, to get good comentary and a reaction. We supplied the commentary, you gave the reaction!

Why cant we go back to the way it used to be. I know there are not as many sq cars as there used to be but why cant they go through the line first? That way we could be done, out of your "hair"(HAHAHA) and showing off our systems to get more people involved! This worked back in the day!?!?

By the way, basicly calling the president/ceo of a car audio company(Linear Power/Blues) a liar is not good practice, especially when said ceo is building stereo systems to compete in and support your organization! I know you did not use the word "liar" but it was heavily implied. Jeneesa has been trying to get Ray to get a booth at World Finals. You can count that out!

I spoke with Ralph on Friday prior to reading his response on this forum. We had a long discussion about all of these things and I'm sure he spoke with some other SQ competitors as well.

Bottom line, to be summed again, is that Ralph cannot be at ALL the shows all the time. So there are going to be problems from time to time (maybe more so than not) but I honestly believe that he wants to keep SQ and would like for it to grow. Now, I am not defending him but I do see both sides to the story.

I didn't know exactly what went down at the MO show in question BUT Ralph did explain his side of the story and it matched Richard's. Yes, he should have had scoresheets at the show but obviously he didn't. I'm sure he tried to do the best he could with what he had. At Slammin & Jammin, he also judged SQ cars there himself because of NO other judges. It took him a while but he got it done. He was also MCing the event and all these things take time.

Back in the day, we had some die-hard, good guys judging SQ at all sorts of events around this part of the country. For whatever reason, most are gone, out-of-it, and doing something else now. These are the people that we need again. I personally would not have a problem helping out whenver I could to judge an event BUT most of the time when I am at a show I have a car or car(s) competing there. I have never liked the way this "looked" and have therfore removed myself from any question on being biased or not. Sometimes the show promoter has to take what he can get for a judge and these type of problems arise. Again, not defending anyone but it is what it is.

When you have SQ at an event, the promoter never knows actually how many SQ cars will show up so normally IT IS AN AFTERTHOUGHT. And I really think that some don't even care. You can't blame them for wanting to make the easy $$$ and focusing on SPL where you can run a ton of cars through the lanes with minimal effort and judging experience.

Instead of everyone getting upset over s**t that ultimately we can't control, how about talking to SPL guys that you know and get them to NOT show up at shows UNLESS the promotor is having SQ at their show with a qualified SQ Judge??? Sure, sounds a little far-fetched but it may be worth a try. It damn sure ain't gonna hurt. There needs to be some way that at least DP shows and up can come up with at least 1 dedicated SQ judge at these shows. Otherwise, there's really NO point in even wasting time and money going to these shows in the first place.

Just a few thoughts from someone's whose pretty much seen it all in one way or the other...

Todd
TCAudio
TeamTCA

I wanted to clarify something. Those that have chimed in here obviously care about SQ or wouldn't be here wasting time typing, I hope.

There are roughly a couple of months left in the '10 competition season before World Finals and really want everyone to think about something: ARE YOU STILL GOING TO BE COMPETING NEXT YEAR???
If YES, then good for you. If NO, then why not??? or are you just not going to be supporting USACi???

There are enough collective souls that care about SQ to stand together and support USACi but yes it will take a commitment in leadership from them. The situation now has not happened overnight but has continued to get worse. Main question again, is how to actually fix it for the future. NO JUDGES = NO SQ. Period.

Multiple shows every weekend contributes to the problem. Not enough SQ judges and quite frankly, I think IF YOU ARE A USACI DIRECTOR THEN YOU NEED TO MAKE SQ A PRIORITY. YOU NEED TO BE CERTIFIED even if you don't actually judge yourself. This NEEDS to be MADE MANDATORY with NO EXCEPTIONS. I know it is a lot of trouble and quite expensive traveling and putting on the shows in the first place, but let's face it for most of you, it's your income. I respect that. The least you can do ON YOUR PART is to step up and get some SQ training and TRY to support SQ at your events.

Several Director's do multiple shows every year for the same RETAILERS, STORES, PAWN SHOPS, ETC. Now, how hard would it be to get one or two employees that work at these places certified in SQ judging??? Maybe offer a show discount for the larger chain stores that do multiple events THAT SUPPLY educated, trained judges to help out at these shows. It is going to take a GROUP EFFORT from everyone involved. Just a few NEW guys with the "drive" would be an IMPROVEMENT over where we are now. I don't know if this will "fix" the current broken SQ problem we all face, but it's bound to help.

JUDGES, JUDGES, JUDGES....that is one of the MAIN problems with SQ right now. We the competitors, NOR USACI, can continue to rely on the guys sent out to run the events, take the entries, run SPL, and somewhere at the end of a long day-----judge SQ cars. Too many young, newer competitors chased off by lack of professionalism and for the most part, organization too.

Chris Pate is offering JUDGING TRAINING prior to his event in August. It would be a great opportunity for all those that can attend make this show just for this training if nothing else. Even for just competitors and not potential new judges. This will give you insight on what judges want to hear and what they are looking for in your installs.

Again....just my two cents.

Todd
TCAudio
TeamTCA

Very good, Todd, I agree with you. But I add that Directors MUST offer SQ at ALL events, all events should be full line shows. That way if a SQ competitor just happens to wonder up he can be judged. Why would you leave it out in the first place, it is extra money in your pocket if you have a SQ entry(s). If you have NO provision for the SQ contestant, HOW DO YOU EXPECT IT TO GROW! This is a MAJOR stumbling block that needs to be removed immediately. Get some people qualified, I agree with you a Director SHOIULD NOT be a director if they can judge a FULL contest, and they should be required to be qualified or have someone qualified to judge at every event.

The other thing is get all of the poeple running contests ORGANIZED! It is too many contests being run that are un-professionally run. This looks bad on the organization as a whole. I remember the incident at Scrapin' the Coast 2009 that Mike Flanagan spoke of where the guy paid for SQ and was told they would judge him Sunday, and then could not find a judge to judge him and they had all sorts of trouble refunding his money which they finally did, but that is one guy who says he will NEVER be back to a USACI event. How many other people do you think he told of his bad experience? Statistically bad experinces get talked about 10's of times more than good ones in any type of situation.

one thing to keep in mind...spl shows cost less as far as I know so that's why some SHOPS choose not to do sq shows. That's how it used to be at least, I think.

Please PM me about the issue at Scrapin the Coast 2009. I do not remember this situation and I'd like to know who the guy spoke with and what came of the issue. In 2009 at Scrapin the Coast SQ was offered. However, all SQ judging was done by Rick Sellers for the USACi part of the event on Saturday so people could enter Deep South Nationals money round Saturday night. I don't recall any SQ being judged on Sunday of that event and apologize if a competitor was told it would be.

This year I was in charge of both SQ and SPL and did my best to accomodate all SQ competitors. I recommended all of them be judged sunday morning but would have judged someone saturday if they were unable to be there on Sunday. The past years when we allowed Rick to do Deep South Nationals we let him handle all SQ judging at the event. Apparently that caused issues and I apologize for the mishap and look forward to hearing the details regarding the situation. Thanks!

The change was noticed (like i told you in my pm) Its great when a director sees a problem and corrects it. I think if we had more directors like that we wouldnt even be discussing this matter. Hey Todd isnt it funny that the answer to everything always seems to be education? Just thinkin out loud.....