SQ CLASS CHANGES for 2010

Well I sure hope that after the Rules Meeting and getting the final details lined out on the new class changes.....that it will actually happen. Hopefully, very soon. The few of us SQ folks that did take the time to show up and discuss the BEST THING FOR THE ORG and EVERYONE INVOLVED went VERY WELL. I think everybody had an open mind as to how to FIX some of the problems, DRAW NEW INTEREST INTO SQ, and make everybody else HAPPY. If we can just get the "big man" onboard 100%, all will be good.

I would like to think Ralph for taking the time and setting up a Rules Meeting. There hasn't been one in some time. He understands that SQ needs a facelift and was open to any new suggestions. I understand the financial end of it and I feel confident that the topics we discussed were very worth while and within reason.

I also want to thank, again, everyone who took the time and actually showed up. These people, regardless of job, finances, etc STILL made it a priority to make the drive and show up. I am however DISAPPOINTED in many of the "die-hards" who didn't come which basically shows everyone.....where u stand...

With some fine detailing of the proposed changes, I think everyone will be happy and USACi will be coming on strong in the future.


Todd Crowder
Team TCA
21 World Championships

So regardless of the reason the diehards couldnt show it shows where they stand. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

I believe the reason that statement was made, is that there was plenty of time to plan for this meeting. Those who early on stated that they wouldn't miss it, that they were absolutely going to be there, didn't show. Obviously something came up.

Or did it.

Those of us that did show up, those of us that drove over 10 hours ( thanks Janessa) and those that made the trip to ensure that the there is still a place for SQ in USAC showed their true colors for being there. Those that pledged to be there but didn't show up or bother to explain why, showed their colors too.

We had some no shows that explained why they couldn't be there...and they had valid points, and no offense was taken.

Just rest assure that SQ in USAC is in some very capable hands and we won't let the competitors down with the changes.

I wanted to make it and had made plans to make it. I was really pissed Friday night and Saturday morning about some unknown problems that came up with work. I hope that the meeting went well and I hope some changes are made that will help the sport.

sorry i missed it guys, the economy has got me hurting for money for bills ... i just didn't have the time to take off work, money for gas and hotel room. no more complaints out of me I promise ... good luck guys and hope for a great future with USACI and sound squality ... great job !!!

I don't think anyone will complain if it all shakes down right. We'll...other than a couple...can't please everyone.

as long as the majortity of competitors buy in, all will be good, as stated above "you cant make everyone happy" but it does look like some are trying and thats a good thing.[/img]

From all I have heard I think you guys are on the right track and have some great ideas.

I don't believe it is an indicator of where anyone stands really. Disappointing as things have been it is easy to get down on things and feel at a loss. The real deal is this (and when i say this I am directing it at everyone including myself) we can change the classes, the rules, the judging, add in spl, add in rta, change orgs.....etc etc etc, but all that will not better our situation. It took us 10 years to get into the mess we are in now, and none of those things will really fix the problems. It will take the efforts of shop owners, installer, salesmen, and existing competitors getting new customers into this hobby/sport. It will take all of us putting on events and going to events and having fun. It will take a total push by everyone involved to get out there and go to an event....even a single point show just down the road. Thats what it will take to make this all relevant. I really do think it is awesome all the efforts everyone of you have put into trying to hammer out the rules/classes.....that is great. But really we all have to start attending events and getting new people into this. That is when it will turn around. That is the approach I am going to take. Whatever the rules we are going to hold some shows and try to attend as many events as we can.

That really is the biggest deal...folks have to attend the shows.

yehp i agree, with Pate. and i would like to add... " it blows me away, that people will argue against RTA and SPL for one reason or another" even though you can use thes both as revenue generating parts of competition,,, but yet these same people think changing the name of a class, adding a class or subtracting a class, and changing a few rules is the solution" Good luck, I wish for the best, and am willing to do what I can, I am working on implementing a few things from the manufacture side that will help shops hold events, and allow more customers become competitors.... an it has nothing to do with changing the name of a class or changing a couple rules... its all about sales!!!!

Ok...nice statements. But what are some of the rules that may change. Or...what directing are we going in for changes. Are classes changing, SQ requirements changing, judge qualification changing?...What?

Sorry I could not make it, but i have stated before that it is hard for those of us in the retail side of this to take off on a Saturday. Not the reason i did not make it tho, i injured my shoulder last Thursday and that has had to be the worst pain i have gone through in a long time.

I think Chris is right with his thinking on this.

HOW BOUT EVERYBODY CHIME IN......How many NEW SQ classes in TOTAL do you think there should be???

Currently there are 10 including Multimedia and both "Q" classes.
I know that it doesn't need to be any more, as much as I would like to add a few. We are talking about an SQ REVAMP. Similar scoresheets but REVISED CLASSES. I have heard a bunch of great ideas but HOW MANY DO YOU THINK THERE SHOULD BE????


Todd Crowder
TeamTCA
24 World Championships

9 classes total...
Class Sketoe
Class Crowder
Class Eldridge

These 3 classes are divided up due to the amount of modifications done to the vehicle.....

Class Sketoe-- is a vehicle that looks stock, no visible modifications
Class Crowder -- has modifications that enhace the install
and visible changes are apparent.
Class Eldridge-- has serious modifications not consistant with the
manufactures design, etc...

Then within each class there is a handicap system that divides the competitors, with an intent for all competitors to bump up as they win more events or as there car gets better..... 3 classes within each of the above 3 classes for a total of 9 ,, offer some sort of prize or money only for the top class within the SKETOE< CROWDER< ELDRIDGE class....

I like what I am seeing you all working together to get this much needed SQ overhauled. I am not a SQ person nor have I ever been but being a USACi director myself I see now after the meeting how much this means to so many USACi SQ competitors and learned alot about what you all want in SQ. I hope you all come to a decision that works out and I also hope to see more SQ in the lanes!

All use the current advanced or intermediate score sheet across all sections.

Street w/SQP-No install scoring, SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL
Street Q-10 point install section, SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL-2 year class or win Finals then auto move to Advanced Street
Advanced Street-20 install and SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL and max 3 creativity points
Intermediate-25 install and SQ score sheet with max 5 creativity points and a unlimited SPL class
Advanced Intermediate-Full install and SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL and max 8 creativity points
Pro 1 seat-No install and SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL
Pro 2 Seat-No install and SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL
Extreme 1 Seat-Full install and SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL and max 15 creativity points
Extreme 2 Seat-Full install and SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL and max 15 creativity points

10 classes ^^^^ Anyone can play in street w/SQP, Street Q basically becomes similar to an intro class except with very limited mods.


Street w/SQP 1-No install scoring, SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL
Street w/SQP 2-No install scoring, SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL
Street Q-10 point install section, SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL-2 year class or win finals auto move up
Advanced Street-20 point install section and SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL and max 3 creativity points
Intermediate Consumer-25 install points and SQ score sheet with max 5 creativity points and unlimited SPL class
Intermediate Advanced-Full install and SQ score sheet, no SPL and max 8 creativity points
Intermediate Pro-Full install and SQ score sheet with 10 creativity points and unlimited SPL
Pro 1 seat-No install and SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL
Pro 2 Seat-No install and SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL
Extreme 1 Seat-Full install and SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL and max 15 creativity points
Extreme 2 Seat-Full install and SQ score sheet with unlimited SPL and max 15 creativity points

12 classes ^^^^^^

I have all the rules and breakdowns in my head. Your vehicle is placed into class based on a points system, years competing ect.

Anyone can play in Street SQP it is an open class that allows for the StreetBeat, SPL guys/gals and SQ guys to have some fun.

You can also break it down another way. It is all on how you want to word it.

Street 1
Street 2
Intermediate Street 1
Intermediate Street 2
Modified 1
Modified 2
Pro 1
Pro 2
Extreme 1
Extreme 2

Chris's Studio Civic wrote:

I don't believe it is an indicator of where anyone stands really. Disappointing as things have been it is easy to get down on things and feel at a loss. The real deal is this (and when i say this I am directing it at everyone including myself) we can change the classes, the rules, the judging, add in spl, add in rta, change orgs.....etc etc etc, but all that will not better our situation. It took us 10 years to get into the mess we are in now, and none of those things will really fix the problems. It will take the efforts of shop owners, installer, salesmen, and existing competitors getting new customers into this hobby/sport. It will take all of us putting on events and going to events and having fun. It will take a total push by everyone involved to get out there and go to an event....even a single point show just down the road. Thats what it will take to make this all relevant. I really do think it is awesome all the efforts everyone of you have put into trying to hammer out the rules/classes.....that is great. But really we all have to start attending events and getting new people into this. That is when it will turn around. That is the approach I am going to take. Whatever the rules we are going to hold some shows and try to attend as many events as we can.

I have to agree that for me, if it wasnt for the shop, I would not be a competitor now. WHen I see the lack of shows in some areas, it isn't surprising that we have a lack of competitors.
You can't expect overnight success either. THe first shows in my area had lot attendance, but the last one that we had was one of the largest single point shows I ever attended.(36 sq competitors-at a single).
If we expect attendance to improve, we need to get the shops involved. I wish I knew how to do this-I have done what I can in my area. Just not a lot of business in BFE where I live.
I have seen an increase in eastern NE, where there have been more shows. Just need to keep it going and give the newbies a reason to come back and improve.
From what I've read, I think we are on the right track.

9 Simple classes.

1. Intro Q - Sound only "1 year class"
2. Consumer Q - Sound only "unlimited year class"
3. Pro Q - Sound Only "unlimited year class"
4. Intro SQ - Sound and Install "1 year class"
5. Intermediate Consumer SQ - Sound and Install "2 year class"
6. Advanced Consumer SQP - Sound, Install, and Pressure with 140 cap "Unlimited year class"
7. Pro SQP - Sound, Install, and Pressure with 140 cap "Unlimited year class"
8. Expert SQP-2 - 2 seat Sound, Install, and Pressure with unlimited cap "Unlimited year class"
9. Expert SQP-1 - 1 seat Sound, Install, and Pressure with unlimited cap "Unlimited year class"

I have set on the backside of this, but I have to voice my opinion on the SPL side. If I wanted to run SPL I would have built a car for SPL and I would have been on the other side of the wall at finals! This is my take on unlimited SPL in SQ! First off SPL does not make a SQ system sound good. Yes I understand that a vehicle should be able to do it all, but the
purpose is sound. If a person spends allot of time on a vehicle focused on sound and needed bass, it is a punch in the face when someone scores less on sound and install, but kicks your ass in SPL and wins
a so called SQ competition.

Example: Person A. scores 14 points higher on install and SQ than Person B. But person B. gets 15 points on SPL because he can pressure 15 DB louder! Person B. wins the SQ class because of SPL!

This makes no sense, new school or old school does not matter, SQ is SQ and should be focused on SQ! If you want to add SPL, add it to the advanced, Pro, and Expert classes. Cap all of the classes except the expert class.

I am old-school but I groomed myself into a DIY/New guy and I know allot of people that do not build for SPL. If you add SPL into lower classes you are going to scare people away. Why would competitor A. want to compete
with his IB setup when his chances are slim because competitor B. sports an SPL machine.


Again if I wanted to compete in SPL I would have built a car for SPL! IMO

Related to Classes in general.

One other thing. I understand the importance of retail but you have to stop and look at the big picture. You have an entire market of DIY guys that don't compete because they think it is a joke. Guys that have a love for SQ. The purpose of rule changes and class changes is to bring in people including new markets that may not give retail all of their money. I am not trying to ruffle any feathers but I thought the purpose of the changes were to make the sport grow? Growth from all angles could eventually fix some of the problems in USAC.

What does cleanliness and the use of security screws have to do with how good my car sounds? It must be the zip ties every 5 inches.

I would have to agree ^^^^.

Is the wire secured for safety-YES
Is the wire fused-YES
Are the speakers secured properly-YES
Is all equipment mounted safely and secured properly-YES

Then if you wanted to have a 1 point attention to detail and 1 point for exceeding the standard. So if someone wants to go the extra mile for 2 points then they can.

I have posted this question as have others several times "Why don't you compete" to the DIY crowd.

Answers:
1. It is stupid
2. I do not need someone else to tell me subjectively in their point of view how my system sounds, because it sounds the way I want it to sound.
3. The install portion is ridiculous with security screws, tech flex ect.
4. The guys that compete are assholes and think they are better than everyone else.
5. Cost to much money
6. I don't care about a trophy show me the money
7. Why should I get involved hell the manufactures don't even care.

You will get some DIY guys that x-over but they are not going to ever flock in droves period I don't care what you do. Most see it as a us vs. them scenario.

What you can try to do is get some of the SPL guys to x-over. Most of the StreetBeat guys could x-over and I know some that have already stated they would if they had a place to play.

So IMO we have to have at least 1 class to try and grab the x-over guys.

You also need a way for the average street guy to want to give it a try.

This is why StreetBeat has become the most popular SPL class. I even have been doing it, why because it is fun.

What is the average guy rolling with. A pair of subs and coaxials, you have to hook the new generation first then get them to want to move up in SQ.

Can we limit what classes have SPL, yes we can. IMO we must have SPL in some sort of street class period. SPL should also be in the upper classes also.

I see people's point about I am SQ not SPL.

My question is so you plan on staying the same class forever and never moving up?

If you move up you will need to rebuild for SPL might as well build it in the first time. Of course unless you plan on staying in the same class forever.

I understand where you are coming from Brian. This is all nothing more than my opinion.

Also to answer your question. I will move up when it is time, I still have some things to learn on my 2nd year in usac. LOL

genxx wrote:

I have posted this question as have others several times "Why don't you compete" to the DIY crowd.

Answers:
1. It is stupid
2. I do not need someone else to tell me subjectively in their point of view how my system sounds, because it sounds the way I want it to sound.
3. The install portion is ridiculous with security screws, tech flex ect.
4. The guys that compete are assholes and think they are better than everyone else.
5. Cost to much money
6. I don't care about a trophy show me the money
7. Why should I get involved hell the manufactures don't even care.

You will get some DIY guys that x-over but they are not going to ever flock in droves period I don't care what you do. Most see it as a us vs. them scenario.

What you can try to do is get some of the SPL guys to x-over. Most of the StreetBeat guys could x-over and I know some that have already stated they would if they had a place to play.

So IMO we have to have at least 1 class to try and grab the x-over guys.

You also need a way for the average street guy to want to give it a try.

This is why StreetBeat has become the most popular SPL class. I even have been doing it, why because it is fun.

What is the average guy rolling with. A pair of subs and coaxials, you have to hook the new generation first then get them to want to move up in SQ.

Can we limit what classes have SPL, yes we can. IMO we must have SPL in some sort of street class period. SPL should also be in the upper classes also.

I see people's point about I am SQ not SPL.

My question is so you plan on staying the same class forever and never moving up?

If you move up you will need to rebuild for SPL might as well build it in the first time. Of course unless you plan on staying in the same class forever.

i didnt even know there was a meeting....