9 SQ classes

Stock-Amature (SQ eqauls 90 percent of score, and very basic Install)
Stock-Intermediate (SQ and Install have eqaul point value, and SPL capped)
Stock-Pro (SQ and Install eqaul point value, and SPL unlimited)

Modified -Amature (SQ eqauls 90 percent of score, and very basic Install)
Modifid- Intermediate (SQ and Install have eqaul point value, and SPL capped)
Modified- Pro (SQ and Install have eqaul point value, and SPL unlimited)

Exotic- Intermediate (SQ and Install have eqaul point value, and SPL capped)
Exotic- Pro (SQ and Install have eqaul point value, and SPL unlimited)

Monster (SQ and Install have eqaul value, and SPL unlimited and RTA)

________________________

Stock- The vehicle appears to be exactly as the manufacture intended for the vehicle to appear, Only modifications allowed would be what is necassary to upgrade equipment. dash kits, speaker adapters, etc.. These are all production street vehicles. (This class represents the competitor that wants an upgraded sound system but, drives his car daily and doesnt want to alter the interior)

Modified- The vehicle has modified interior panels. Upgraded door panels, kick panels, tweeter pillars, etc... but still represents the original interior as the manufacture intended. These are all production street vehicles. (This class represents the competitor that is willing to make modifications to his interior either for cosmetic reasons or to enhance the sound system.

Exotic- The vehicle has been modified in a way that it no longer appears as it did from the manufacture. New dash, new door panels relocated seats, etc.... Non production street vehicles would be allowed in this class. (This class represents the competitor that is willing to rebuild the interior to try to achieve the ultimate sound system possible)

Monster- Vehicles that have taken Exotic to the extreme. (This class represents the competitor that is willing to go to the ultimate distance to achieve the very best sound system, or is willing to do out-of-the-ordinary modifications to the vehicle) Center-drive etc... This class is to represent the very best of whatever is possible, therefore should be subjected to very stringent installation judging, and unlimited SPL, and RTA...
____________________________________

Amature-- SQ and very basic install that assures vehicle safety. Competitor competes in this class for 2 seasons or if he wins World Finals he gets moved to Intermediate class..

Intermediate-- SQ and Install share similiar points and capped SPL. Competitor competes in this class for 2 seasons or if he wins wins World Finals he gets moved to the Pro class..

Pro-- Competitor can stay in this class forever..

Monster- Single class open to anyone at anytime.

The trunk area is "open" to installation on all vehicles.

These i like bro..... Even better than the other and saves Ralph a class too... Hell this may work

Cool format, definitely going in the right direction.

Ok.......This is a great idea. Really, I mean that. The RTA idea is cool, as long as it it done in a manner that will not encourage drivers being blown. The classes are nice and well laid out. There are clear divisions in what you are allowed to do in each class. Also there is still the seperation of Pro and Consumer. As a bonus to Ralph it widdles the classes down to nine which saves money.

I like this. If we wanted then would could add in Street X the cross over class and everyone would have a class from the kid off the street to the Center seat drive cars.

Did I mention I really like this.

Not bad Gary...I've got some tweaks on your descriptions. I'll post back later. I could see adaptation of existing Intermediate and Advanced sheets easier than recreating the wheel per se.

I really like it too

No RTA, the rest is cool.

Why not RTA? I like the fact the RTA would be used somewhere. Just curious? Is there any particular reason why not.

I really feel that RTA should be in the no-holds-bar class, if these competitors are pushing the envelope and are truly building the premeir vehicles, they should be able to do any and all aspects of audio competition..... And in reality, RTA in this class would only slow things down,,, oh 10 minutes or so per event,,,, I just dont see their being many cars in this class unless something like prize money draws them to it.... Again, if these are the best of the best, on the cutting edge, installation and sound machines,,,, RTA should be a cake walk,,, and I hoenstly have never seen a speaker blow from RTA,,, I am sure it has happeneed... I just have never witnessed it.... Even a couple year or so back when we were doing full volume SPL/RTA people didnt blow anything up, Jan and Monty even explained how easy it was and that if you have half a clue you can do it... Beside, in reality it is optional, if you dont want to do it you dont have too.... lol you just give up those points.....

Been reading most of these posts over the last few weeks.
The 9 class layout looks really good to me.
Sounds like I could fit into either of the Exotic classes.






Mike Peterson

i like

we voted at the meeting that RTA was out.

I beleive that most competitors do not care for RTA because of the time it takes to prepare their cars, I also beleive that the org, doesnt care for it, because of the man power, and time it has taken up over the years... Maybe there is political issues, im not sure.I also beleive that a few people have lobbied agaisnt it for years, for one selfish reason or another, and alot of people have bought in to the fact that if the mic. isn't in exactly the same spot etc, etc, the results are not repeatable,,,, You know what? all may be true..... But guess what? I have attended USACi shows and got a sq score from a judge, never touch my car and a week or two weeks later the same judge score my car between 20 to 40 points different.... Guess what? Not a single person here has ever had that big of a swing on RTA scoring,,, Maybe 3 to 6 point at most.... If you truly left everything alone... I have 3 AC 3050 at my shop... last night I ran a test at my shop on the subaru demo car I built... All 3 mics,, Only one has been recently calibrated about 2 months ago,,,, scored the car 32, 30, and 33..... that is pretty consistant and I didnt really make sure the mic was in the same spot I just put them in and out on the stand..... That is pretty consistant..... Now, if a new guy,,,, Since were are trying to get new guys in the lanes,,,, Sees a low score at an event,,, USACi can now direct him back to the shop he does business with and let him know that he needs to work on a certain area, this could turn into sales of labor, or gear.... Now the DIYer that doesnt have a meter,,, Same thing..... USACi could even make a few bucks by having,,, "The official meter" set up and everyone could pay for a USACi tweek and tune time before the event...... I bet ya that people would sign up... I am telling you guys this is a sales tool..... Maybe it has no releveance in your opinion as far if it tells anything about how great a system does or does not sound,,, But it is a sales tool, if you know what your doing and if you want to sell product, you can use it..... how many guys that are so against RTA, work at a shop that has one? and do you use it at all? setting gains? observing the freq. curve of the competition car you just built? looking at the freq response of a new car that you never worked on before, etc etc...
Please give a reason we dont want rta other than... its not consistant, (judges are not consistant) please give a reason other than it takes up too much time, (were only talking about the "monster class" probably never be more than 6 cars in that class, if ever... If the org doesnt have one, I will be glad to lease mine to them for $0.00 per year...

Impressive....great train of thought Gary and I agree with everything you just said and also the reasons (excuses) why it won't happen. If you can just now persuade USACi to include it I'll be all for it. That's the problem and unforunately, I think someone already mention it, it was "voted" out at the meeting. Whether not it can come back into the NEW top dog class, who knows???


TC
TCAudio

I like this Allot!!!

Just want to know on the Stock class if we should have rules like the spare tire should be present if so equipped and storage area's (trunk,center consoles,behind seats etc. etc.) should have no more then a basic box and amp mounting.

Also can we give these people latitude like a-piller tweeters and maybe the capability to change the stock grill. No more then that.

Hi no RTA but a 9 sq classes I like..............

Juan maldonado
world finals usaci 07.08.09
mustang gt 06 red colorado
team marrufo and audio fx
clarion-focal-dls-image dynamics
...................................................

1. We sold all of our USACI RTA METERS.
2. RTA is highly susceptible to background noise and interference making it TOUGH to do at most events.
3. RTA meters need to be plugged in making more logistics for most events.
4. RTA is hard to make a rule because the curve of any given vehicle should be designed for what sounds best in that vehicle, not a curve set by rules.
5. I remember the days of RTA without fond memories.
6. Requires an addition staff member(S) to judge SQ thus creating more expense to hold SQ shows.
7. Past tests have shown that while very close, no two meters read exactly the same (these were done yearas ago) and as such setting up for RTA would be flawed.



Just some thoughts

Brian I am not bagging on your idea about a streetx class but you have said this is to get the streetbeat guys a way to get into SQ Right? We already have a class like this it is intro or basic whatever you want to call it. Giving people who are not as hardcore on install was one of the reasons this class was created. My point is if we make a streetx class will they suddenly flock to competing SQ? We have several people who compete in streetbeat at our local shows and we have tried to get them to try out the intro class but most were not interested. Again not hating on your idea we need to get new people interested in SQ just an observation.

James I understand where you are coming from. Hopefully this will help people understand where I am coming from.

Ok guys Street X-Let's break it down. Think of it as the Q and StreetBeat classes combined and I just gave it cool catchy name STREET X. It is like taking some StreetBeat and Q mixing it in a salad bowl. Think outside the box of Old School conventional SQ/SPL. Old School is not bringing people in anymore in SQ or SPL. StreetBeat is the one growing.

IMO We have to find something that appeals to the DIYer, SQ, SPL and guy off the street.

The DIY guys think the SQ guys are pricks, the SQ guys think the SPL are idiots and the SPL guys think we are all arrogant assholes. No one ever says it to each other but its the truth. To me this has done a lot to hurt the sport the Dung Pile attitude from everyone and in fighting.

I will say it they do not give a sh*t about install, not even a little bit. If it has install their attitude is screw that not interested.

Intro has basic install.

What is needed is safety checks only no points involved (like MECA) yep I said it another org. A huge Open class is what I am talking about.

No install points makes the old guard SQ guys cringe for some reason.

You use the SQ ADV or Interm. score sheet with unlimited SPL.

You can take a hoopty and do this class. It is also open to everyone even manufactures, shops I mean anyone. I know its none traditional.

I would also like to see a flat fee $20 bucks put on this class. Meaning anyone that wants to do it drops $20 and can do it.

The SQ guys think they are the best the SPL guys think they are where it is. So let them go head to head. It is like a drag race you run what you brung.

Basically it is finally throwing down a challenge to both groups to bring it or go home. Put up or shut up.

SQ guys better get all the SQ points they can and put up a decent SPL number. The SPL guy better put up a big number and get a decent SQ score.

The SPL number has to be put up using music ala StreetBeat.

Will this grow SQ I have no clue, will it build new interest I have no clue. It is something new we need something new.

IMO Will Monster or the new class structure bring in new people, really it is like swinging a bat in the dark and we hope to hit a home run.

If we don't have the Street X class cool we will all live with whatever decision is made.

It is just something new I have brainstormed about. I am all about finding the new niche to bring in new guys, expand SQ and SPL.

We keep re-writing the same old stuff. We rename it, we call it something new. Is it really all that new or it just switching stuff around.

We have to think outside the box. We have gotten so comfortable with what we know and understand that we have stopped thinking about new ideas. We have to stop being so guarded about the old way of doing things.

I am sure some other people have something they have always thought would be cool and outside the box.

If you have voice it. It might be the idea needed.

Here are some other things in the brainstorming head of mine.

Basic rules.

1. $20 flat rate to compete in the class.
2. No install period none, 5 point safety check no points none.
3. You put up your best SPL number for full points, if you do a 140db you get 140 points
4. You get judged on the SQ Adv. or Intermediate score sheet
5. You total the scores of all
6. You SPL run must be done using music Ipod or CD

Whoever has the highest total has the bragging rights or whatever you want to call it

This way anyone can compete DIYer, kid off the street, SPL guy, SQ guy

It is very simple. Levels the playing field so that anyone can come out, have fun and make new friends.

It is subjective mixed in with a meter that does not lie.

You would be given 5 min to do your adjustments between your SQ and SPL run.

Also this requires no extra devices or judges at full events. Which it will only be offered at full events.

Here is some more.

Local Shows.

What if you win you get your $20 back and if 10 people enter the class you get $50 bucks, 15 people equals $80 bucks and 20 people equals $100.

USACi would still make money also.

An example only. This could also be applied to any show or class.

Less than 10 enter the class the winner gets his entry fee back of $20.
9 people enter total entries = $180-$20=$160
10 people enter total entries = $200-$50= $150
15 people enter total entries = $300-$80= $220
20 people enter total entries = $400-$100= $300


Finals would be $75 bucks to enter. You don't need an invite for finals to enter Street X. Only pays if 20 or more cars enter.

1st Place $270
2nd Place $130
3rd Place $100

USACi stills makes $1000 off the extra class if only 20 cars enter.

Everyone that comes to finals whether SQ or SPL can enter it and try and make back some money they spent on entry fees to finals. You just have to beat the local guys that show up also.

On top of that you know the SQ guys are going to enter a SQ class and the SPL guys a SPL class. The Street X money helped them make the decision to come out.

Cool Brian I now understand better what you meant by this class.

Gary...good point.

use the old flashdance song ... not tones or street beat music ...

I found some life in this old dead horse, so im gonna beat it for a few more minutes.....

Ralph wrote:
1. We sold all of our USACI RTA METERS.
2. RTA is highly susceptible to background noise and interference making it TOUGH to do at most events.
3. RTA meters need to be plugged in making more logistics for most events.
4. RTA is hard to make a rule because the curve of any given vehicle should be designed for what sounds best in that vehicle, not a curve set by rules.
5. I remember the days of RTA without fond memories.
6. Requires an addition staff member(S) to judge SQ thus creating more expense to hold SQ shows.
7. Past tests have shown that while very close, no two meters read exactly the same (these were done yearas ago) and as such setting up for RTA would be flawed.
Just some thoughts
_________________
Ralph Randall
President, USAC International
www.usaci.org

Gary's reply:
1. As I mentioned, I would be glad to lease a perfect condition, freshly updated AC 3050 for a whopping $0.00 per year...
2. Human judges are just as acceptable to the same back ground noises.
3.The AC meters have a back up battery built in, it will last several hours when properly maintained, and charged.
4. Old school 40 point scale easily solves this as an issue, all the meter is doing is looking for any variances over 3 db apart,,,it does nbot matter what your curve is,, every car on the circuit will sound best when there are smaller gaps between freqs. and only an rta can show this...
5. any and all competitors that had to do RTA probably loved it or hated it,,, Im just stating that its a huge tool that we are not taking advantage of..
6. You are correct, it would either require another judge, or more time by a current judge of the event...
7.past, present, and future tests will show that no 2 sq judges are the same, or can come up with the same score, or even repeat the scores they give a car at multiple events.... Humans are more flawed than the RTA.... and as I stated before... your difference in the flawed RTA may be between 1 to 6 point... where with a human on sq, could and has been between 1 to 50 points...

So the solution to #6 is have RTA in the "Open Mopnster" class, if these vehicles and installers, are truly pushing the limit and are building the best performing vehicles on the planet, they should not have a problem with a RTA.... and that would eliminate RTA from about 98 percent of the shows. because there most likely wold only be a small handfull of events where they show up and compete.... large events primarily.....

I like the crossover class - Street beat idea,,,

just take street beat as it sets.... and just add in SQ...
get full spl points, and full sq points....

easy, done!.... and it gives us a total of ten classes....

You know... The only thing that really matters with the class structure is that the overall system will bring in as many new competitors as possible, and keep those who have been around for a while enthusiastic about coming back for more. If that means that a few people are unhappy with the classes, but hundreds more new to USACi like it, then we need to go with the majority. (I hope I'm in the majority when it's done... )

If center seat cars are going to be a huge draw for other competitors and spectators to come see and hear, and having a class for one or two or thirty of these vehicles will work to greatly increase SQ competitor participation and crowd numbers, then by all means let's create the class.

If creating the Streetbeat crossover class will increase SQ competition participation (which I think it would work well), then we need to make room for that class.

I like the "points per modification type" system we discussed at the meeting for qualifying the vehicles. I think it is the best way to look at a vehicle, and place it in a class where it would be equitable with other vehicles in the class.

I also see the benefits of Gary's idea as well, although it would take several years for it all to settle out where everyone is in the right class. Until that time, there would be some competitors in classes where they don't belong, harvesting trophies.

Again, just make sure the classes attract as much competitor and spectator participation as possible. Cater to the majority that will help SQ grow again, in what ever form that may be.

On a tangential topic... One of the biggest problems I see is that even when we get a new person to compete in SQ, most times they are so overwhelmed by the rules, not understanding the scores they receive, nor how to work to improve the scores, that they simply give up after one or two shows. If we can help bring them in with good information and actually giving them an opportunity to learn, maybe more of them will stick around.

And, since one of the major drawbacks to having more than 10 classes seems to be the number of trophies the directors have to bring to the shows, here's an idea that may work to allow for fewer trohies needed, at least at all shows except Regionals and Finals. I mentioned this to Ralph after the meeting, so he knows about it already.

For the Expert competitors (or what ever they will be called with the new classes...), since they usually only compete at major events, how about creating some incentive for them to bring their fancy rides out to the local events. For Regionals and Finals, the Expert class(es) would be treated just like any other class, with full judging and trophies. But at all other show, the Expert competitors could bring their cars out to display, not be required to compete, and create an educational opportunity for the new competitors at the events. Let anyone at the show listen to the car, crawl around and learn about what we do as installers and competitors, talk about the rules, how to build an SQ competition vehicle, talk about music, explain why we don't ever want to do RTA in the judging lanes again ,and in general help to educate anyone interested on what we do, why we do it, and how they can get involved.

Because they would not be competing, the excuse of "I need to keep the car clean for judging so I can't let anyone get inside to listen except the judges" wouldn't work. And in return for having their vehicles on display and working to help educate people on the in's and out's of SQ competition, the Expert competitors could receive first place points towards qualification for Finals.

Plus, as part of the qualification for Finals, USACi could require Experts to display at at least one or two single, double, or triple point events. This would put some pressure on Experts to participate at local events again.

And as far as SPL in the SQ lanes goes... Well, if anyone noticed at the Finals this year, I think I was the only SQ car in the entry hall that competed in an SPL format. And di you notice the crowd that gathered around the car when it was going on? probably 40 or more people to see a NASCAR SQ competition vehicle do SPL. Sure, maybe we need to look at how to do SPL without the potential to blow up systems... But if we can get a crowd to get up close to the SQ cars by doing SPL, then maybe they will stick around and ask questions about what we're doing, and we can steer the conversation towards explaining the whole SQ side of car audio. If we can't even get people to come up and look at the cars, then offer to let them listen to them, we're missing a great opportunity to get more people interested in doing SQ.

This is why I whole-heartedly support bringing SPl back into the mix in some of the SQ classes. Have classes with Install and SQ only, and then have an additional class with SPL added on top.

Go Mark. Nice.

Sounds like fun ... and a challenge !!! where do i sign up ??? great ideas all ... i like it ...