Intro SQ Class

I'm putting this post in this subforum because I figured it would get better visibility than in the Rules section.

I was looking at the Intro SQ class rules and scoresheet the other day and was baffled by the sound portion of the judging.

I understand the intent of the Intro class, and believe it has a place in this organization, but follow me on this....

The SQ portion of the scoresheet only contains 2 aspects of SQ:
Staging - does it sound like the music is coming from in front of you, all around you, behind you?
Width - does the sound come from beyond the pillars, at the pillars, inside the pillars?

Where is Definition and Clarity, or overall Sound Quality? Does it not matter if a kick drum sounds like a plastic trash barrel, or if a trumpet sounds like a kazoo?

I would think that if the Intro class was going to point out to new competitors the most important aspects of SQ it would be trying to achieve an overall nicely balanced realistic sound.

If USACi would add a couple of more sections to the Intro scoresheet, it would also reduce the 5-way ties for first place that always seem to happen at the large shows.

The Intro scoresheet is just too basic as it is. I don't think by adding a couple of important areas would run off any new potential competitors. And it would give the Intro competitors a little idea of what to accomplish before moving up to a much more detailed Intermediate class.

I think a 0-3 Overall SQ would be a nice add.

agree

With the intro rules you don't even need a real front stage. Just tweeters in the sail panels run off HU power.

Then some subs for the SPL portion.

Everything else will just hurt you in that class.

It needs more than a 0-3 for SQ. It needs to have some of the basic things of SQ competition--Imaging (true imaging--left, right, center). It needs an actual tonality breakdown subbass, midbass, midrange, highs.

With the current rules and with an "overall SQ" category there is no way to get better in that class. The Overall SQ category would only help competitors if judges wrote a page and half of details about the system that got you back to a real scoresheet. Which they won't do. So if you got a 2 in "overall SQ"---what do you work on? You are telling the most basic SQ competitors nothing, but wanting them to advance to classes with real SQ. Doesn't work.

With the current system you are basically hoping for a tie and that you have a wall of 15's.

And this is where the advanced sheet started! Why don't we add......

Want more? Got to intermediate.

LOL
let's just take intro out of finals the way it was intended then.

i agree that the score sheet could use a bit more , but i think that having intro . in the finals is a good idea . if the competitor is serious about competing finals will give him a good idea what to do for the next season.

I would like to see this discussed at a member's meeting before the beginning of next season. I'm not asking to make Intro harder because I don't think we need to scare people away.

My concern is that the current judging criteria does not reflect the bare essentials of SOUND QUALITY competition. Sure someone could just not care about competing in Intro and go straight to Consumer Q. But then with the first step out of the box being thrown into a class with cars built like Sketoe's, Lou's, Juan's, etc? Let's be realistic here...

What Andy mentioned about having just tweets in the sail panels is exactly what I was thinking. Maybe I'll talk a friend of mine into competing with just that in Intro and see how it goes over.

I'm not trying to stir the pot, only making a valid observation to a lack of required detail in a very basic class. Why should the installation portion of the scoresheet in Intro have 7 sections, but sound only has 2? And SPL used to break a tie instead of any importance given to actual SOUND QUALITY?

Just give equal importance to sound quality as is done with installation in this class. Maybe something like this?:
Width 1-3 pts
Depth 1-3 pts
Height 1-3 pts
Spectral balance 1-5 pts
Overall sound quality 1-10 pts

Like I said, I don't expect any changes during the year; but maybe some consideration before next year.

Wanna win intro?
mid and tweet in the pillar midbass in the door, or everything in the door...no rear speakers what so ever and let her rip a 150db on a termlab. Bolt everything down and make her safe and secure.

It's the perfect class for any Usaci Veteran
currently doing SPL or Street Beat who
wants to try their skills in SQ.



.....afterall, they have mids
and tweets in their cars too.



(9/34)

MAGNATUDE wrote:

It's the perfect class for any Usaci Veteran
currently doing SPL or Street Beat who
wants to try their skills in SQ.



.....afterall, they have mids
and tweets in their cars too.



(9/34)

Yes it is......

jsketoe wrote:

Wanna win intro?
mid and tweet in the pillar midbass in the door, or everything in the door...no rear speakers what so ever and let her rip a 150db on a termlab. Bolt everything down and make her safe and secure.

Why wou;d you bother with a midrange and midbass?

Move the tweeters to the sail panels to give you more width. Angle them slightly and you will have depth. Use the HU power to make wiring easier---so the scoring is done easier.


The put 2 15's in an enclosure in the rear tuned high to make it efficient. A big class D amp and walk away. Off for "SQ" judging. On for SPL judging.


Tweets and subs---I seriously wouldn't bother with anything else.

If you don't like how tweets sound, put a small midrange in the sail panels. Either a 2" or 3" (I wouldn't spend more than $10 a piece for them). That's it--but get it outside the apillars so you have some width.

I would never waste the time with a 3 way in that class. To many things that could hurt you on install. Same deal with putting an amp on the front speakers. Wouldn't bother--something else to jack up install with.

Sometimes Andy you scare me.

jsketoe wrote:

Wanna win intro?
mid and tweet in the pillar midbass in the door, or everything in the door...no rear speakers what so ever and let her rip a 150db on a termlab. Bolt everything down and make her safe and secure.

Very similar to what I did in 06. LOL However I used mid and tweet in the kick with a tweet in the pillar.

I remember an install judge making a decision that I didn't agree with that year. It wasn't on my install but another guys. He gave a 0 on processor mounting because he didn't see a "processor" in the car. This particular car had a small amount of processing built into the HU and I felt it should have been counted as such.

Sorry I got kinda off topic there. I like your idea Monte. There should be a little more detail in "sound" on the intro sheet. I don't know how many times I maxxed out that sheet my first year. Then after I moved up a class everything changed and I haven't been able to take a 1st at finals since. I've been stuck in a 3rd plce rut for a few years now. lol But I'm not complaining. It could be worse!

jkrob21 wrote:

I remember an install judge making a decision that I didn't agree with that year. It wasn't on my install but another guys. He gave a 0 on processor mounting because he didn't see a "processor" in the car. This particular car had a small amount of processing built into the HU and I felt it should have been counted as such.

You bring up a good point here: How should a judge score something on the scoresheet that doesn't exist in the car?

Not giving points because of the lack of some kind of processor is like telling a novice competitor "sorry...you need to go spend more money".

I agree with Monte.

Intro needs something and I like Montes' idea. This is a SQ based class but to win you need to do a 140 or better on a termlab.

Are we doing SQ or SPL. We already have classes for both so let's keep it that way.

Just by adding Height and Spectral Balance would probably do away with needing to do SPL in most cases. Also why not add a 3 min brief your vehicle with the option to have a picture book as 3 to 5 bonus points.

You can only compete in intro one season IIRC so lets set people up for success later on instead of the shock when they move up.

I really do not like this comment:
It's the perfect class for any Usaci Veteran
currently doing SPL or Street Beat who
wants to try their skills in SQ.



.....afterall, they have mids
and tweets in their cars too.

Should the Veteran SPL guys even be allowed to compete in Intro? They have already been a active competitor period.IMO

Are we trying to get the SPL guys to switch over with the Intro class or get people started in SQ?

I feel that Monte, Andy, and my point was well proven at TSS.

jsketoe wrote:

my point was well proven at TSS.

John you point was very well proven. What a lesson I learned at TSS about the intro class. Really not the place I wanted to learn it but much better than learning it at Finals.

Thanks for all the help at TSS John, I really appreciate it.

Brian

did someone compete with just tweeters?

Intro is a little too light on sound and that will be addressed. SPL will stay the tiebreaker and Install will stay basic. We need intro to STAY INTRO. You make it competitive and it will be like Street Beat, designed for beginners and dominated by veterans.

No not just tweeters. It does appear you could and be succesful or just run a widebander like the HAT L4 only. Get the aiming right just for width, super simple install that keeps the KISS principle and be able to do a 145 or better on the TL and your a top competitor in intro.

Problem is the next year when you cannot figure out why you are getting killed when you move up in classes or have to redo an entire build because you are not set-up to do anything other than intro.IMO

If you really have any desire at all in the SQ world, I would not waste time competing in Intro. It is wasted time and money for anyone that cares about SQ. Just move into intermediate. The install section is simple. Then you get to focus on SQ.

You also don't have to waste time, money and equipment to do SPL at that level just to move to intermediate next year and have to pull all that $hit out.

until intro is redone, I'd just leave it to SPL guys and manufacturers looking for artificial world final trophies.

I encourage all intro cars to step up to Intermediate. Brian...as good as your truck sounded after Scott got done with it this weekend...really, expecially with what you discussed doing, I'd go Intermediate.

The truck that won was very solidly built. Mids and tweets...sub off behind the seat, and let it rock. Basically, it's simple, Turn the sub off, make the sound go outside into the side mirrors and keep all the info in front of you. Her and her dad did that very well. I told them both that they were doing an intro vehicle very well for the intro class. That is 100%. If she decides to move up, she has a very solid base and I really feel it will only take tuning....Tim gave them pointers on install. Great folks!

SQLAltima wrote:

If you really have any desire at all in the SQ world, I would not waste time competing in Intro. It is wasted time and money for anyone that cares about SQ.

That's assuming that you're setting out to build a car to compete.

Not all people out there are like this..for instance...Nicole.

Her truck was built THEN she decided that she wanted to compete. The intro class was designed SPECIFICALLY for folks like her.

The intro class was NOT designed for people to build a car TO compete then go compete in the intro class.

Now in saying this I know I'm going to step on some toes...but...I'm going to say it anyways...

If you're building a car SPECIFICALLY to compete and you're entering the INTRO class...grow some nuts and step up.

You've already taken the first step, commit yourself and show your dedication at least a little bit.

My Daughter Nicole had a great time and now is a full tilt addict for SQ. We met some great people and got great advise.

It was a great show and the quality of judges were great. And they all were very nice and were more than willing to help Q&A.

The rules could use a bit more in the sound area. I do think that the install needs to stay the same because most people off the street that might want to compete should at least have the basics of the install work done already. Then they could here from the judges as far as SQ goes.

I agree with Jan. I built one of the cars that was in intro and it was not built for intro I thought that at this show he was going to move up to intermediate but he said he didnt have his photo book done yet. Intro class was not supposed to be a class that cars were built to compete in they were for cars like the young lady that won this weekend, the only reason there is a pro intro is for people that meet the requrements to compete pro but have never competed before.

tijuana_no wrote:

i agree that the score sheet could use a bit more , but i think that having intro . in the finals is a good idea . if the competitor is serious about competing finals will give him a good idea what to do for the next season.

i brought my quote up again , cause what you guys are saying in the last 4 post is what i was trying to say in my own simple words.lol

nicole's , truck is a good example of this class and a show like this was of great
help to her . it helps in making your next step decisions a bit easier and that is the propose of this class.

Hey everyone! I had a great time a TSS and learned ALOT. All the judges were very helpful and gave me lots of tips and pointers! TSS was my first show and It was a great experience everyone welcomed me with open arms. A huge thanks to MontE (lol), Jan, Nick, the judges and everyone who was part of the show. Since TSS I have become completely addicted!

~Nicole

Great!
Keep it up!