Concerns or questions for competitor comitee

First topic message reminder :

Please post any topics or concerns you would like the comitte to discuss and bring to Ralph's attention. Keep this clean. No bickering or fighting. Just the facts We as a comitee would like to help with the problems the competitors have so please bring them to our attention in a orderly fashion so we as a comitee can do our best to help you the competitors.

ok the only thing i have to say on this issue is this

if the car is being checked over before entering the lanes as it is suppose to be then what is the issue, and where does the cheating come into play.

I know for a fact that once the judge see's you place the mic on the floor or in the kick ure handsmust then be visible the rest of the time untill the metering process is over.

so I guess what I am saying is the judges in the lanes need to get back to the way theye are suppose to be and not opting for the easy day.

sanman wrote:

ok the only thing i have to say on this issue is this

if the car is being checked over before entering the lanes as it is suppose to be then what is the issue, and where does the cheating come into play.

I know for a fact that once the judge see's you place the mic on the floor or in the kick ure handsmust then be visible the rest of the time untill the metering process is over.

so I guess what I am saying is the judges in the lanes need to get back to the way theye are suppose to be and not opting for the easy day.

Jeff,
Just so you understand my point: I really don't suspect the cheating as many do. My ONLY real concern is over the use of the mic judge being used as a "filler" during any number of runs. At this point in time, if USACi allows someone other than the competitor to "take up space", then so be it. But you can damned well bet that it won't be the guy that places the mic, supplies the CD and the earmuffs at any event I'm doing. As I implied earlier, bring your own home boy to sit in the vehicle or your favorite (fattest) inflatible dolly.

firespl wrote:

zacdavis wrote:

Hi Bill, the manned or unmanned question....It looks as though the rule will in fact change. During this next weeks events we'll be asking members their opinion on this so we can present it to the rules and ethics board.

The general consensus from my area is overwhelmingly for unmanned.

We are also looking into the design of a fixture that will properly secure the globe while unmanned.

If you could show a true and believable argument against a mic monkey then I would love to hear it- problem is that many on the committe have there own agenda and will push for that position- you nor anyone in USACI can present any type of viable argument for changing the way its done- if it aint broke don't fix it. On the other hand if you can think of an argument lets talk about it- and it has to be supported with facts not hearsay- in the end what it comes down to is weather or not a car gains from a mic monkey or two but isn't that why they call it outlaw spl, if you gain more power to you if you don't then don't use a mic monkey at least then we can have a choice.

Sounds as though you have your own agenda. Every one of us on the committee are doing nothing but writing down the favor of each competitor on the subject and so far most of YOU want the vehicles unmanned.
After all the votes are in from each region I will send the results into the board for review.
If any of you arent wanting this to change it's important you contact your regions captain and let them know so your vote will be counted.

To answer your question about pros or cons of unmanned vs manned.
my opinion....

The only pro to having our cars manned is that our scores go up, but if nobody has a monkey then what would be the problem?

This is a liability for USACi, what happens when a kid pops his eardrum? You can say if it aint broke dont fix it but guy these cars are getting louder and louder each and every year.

There are many reasons to go unmanned, so yes my favor is for unmanned. But my vote doesnt count anymore then any other members.
We're giving the board a paper that says X amount ya X amount nay.

Avoiding cheating is only one small factor this rule change has been considered.

On a personal note, I have experienced adverse affects from sitting in for testing. I noticed it a few ears ago, so did the bands I played with.
After figuring out what was happening to me I purposely sat in the car and did a few burps before band practice to test if this indeed was the source of my problem. I concluded this was the reason my timing/meter was so far out of wack during practices following testing.

I did a few more tests to be sure it was the spl that was affecting me and it indeed was the case. So I did some research on the net to understand how being subjected to high SPL's could affect me playing drums, the answer was simple and easy to find.
Being in an environment with high pressure frequencies will affect a person's equilibrium.
Our equilibrium is used for more than just balance, it is crucial to hand eye coordination and especially when time signatures are involved.

It takes about a full 24 to 48 hours for me to get back to normal after being in a car that is over 160 db.
I tested this on my cousin who is a drummer as well, I threw him in the car and did a few burps, he got out and said, I feel fine, whats the problem. I said nothing, I wanted to see what he'd say later that night after his band's practice, his mates asked him a few times, "dude, are paying attention or what your meter is all over the place".

Listen guys each and every one of you know being in these cars is not good for you. I doubt any of you care about the timing thing except for maybe Greg but we all know it isnt good for our hearing and all of ya should be concerned for that alone. And how about if USACi got sued by some kid who popped his ear?
Stop crying because this is a good thing if for nothing more just the shear factor of elliminating any cheating in the vehicle, or just leveling the playing field, or making it easier for each and every one of us to test when we're alone and don't have a monkey.....its a good thing.

And before anyone says I'M biased, well think again. I have hours upon hours of testing with monkey's in my car. thats the only way I was able to get a 160 in 0-1000. It took me a week to figure what position I needed to have my feet, legs, head, arms, seat back position before I got to the 160.
without that testing I was only at 158.8 with a person just sittin there.

If you DONT want this rule to change TELL YOUR CAPTAIN!!!
We will all be absolutely certain your voices will be heard and your votes counted.

Very well said Zac!

Being a mic monkey is an art form. Not everyone makes a car louder.

Yes I do have a personal agenda here- I would like the choice of having a mic monkey or not- for my truck I choose no cause I lose quite a bit with someone in there, but at least I have the choice. well I'm sorry your timing belt gets jerked when you test- really I figured you to be a bit smarter than that-what moron tests at fulll volume with a a mic monkey all the time every time- and as far as someone cheating who was it? Or is this another assumption brought about by people just talking Dung Pile, but if you have facts I'd like to hear them. And as far as someone busting an eardrum- the assclown had it coming sitting in a car without protection, you want me to feel sorry for him- screw him and his busted eardrum.

MR Jaffe my comments were not pointed at someone from usac sitting in the vehicles but rather soeone from your own team.

there are always pro's and cons to everything, and I agree with NENE this is the best Country in the world to live i for the fact that we have the freedom of choice. Noone sayd to sit in the vehicle and test test test at full volume, noone says dont wear hearing protection, and noone says after the show when yall go to the strip club and get hammered that you should drive anyways, but alot of people do thats there choice to do so, and there consequences to suffer.

So in answer to my question, it is officially being considered?

That's what I was after. If there's going to be a debate over it, it should be on another thread. Keep this one to suggesting topics.

Nene, I would re-explain my position but you didnt catch what I was saying the first time so reiterating would serve no purpose other than for the sake of arguing.

But what the hell here it goes.....

#1 And as far as someone busting an eardrum- the assclown had it coming sitting in a car without protection, you want me to feel sorry for him- screw him and his busted eardrum
Ok my point in this "hypothetical" situation has nothing to do with whether or not the person is deserving of an injury brought on by himself...Nope, my point was intended to bring attention to the liability USACi faces if someone decides to sue.

#2 I would like the choice of having a mic monkey or not- for my truck I choose no cause I lose quite a bit with someone in there, but at least I have the choice.
Well that is a choice that serves you best, but maybe not others. Stop thinking about yourself for a second and think about the members who don't want to sit in their vehicles...for the most part vehicles always gain with a mic monkey. In order for me you or anybody else to be competitive they must do what is necessary to stay competitive, and if that means sitting in the car because others are, then we are in a round about way forcing other competitors do do something they normally wouldn't do to stay, well, competitive.

You talk about choices, like its your god given right as an American to make whatever choice you want, well man it's not that simple. This is a sanctioning body that has rules, it ain't BugerKing.
Heck, I'm with ya though...I'd love to do whatever I wanted to make my car louder. The first thing I'd do is build a console that creates a pocket just like a human body does, but unfortunately the rules don't allow that.

In all honesty the current rule, technically, prohibits mic monkeys if it's interpreted properly.
The rule states that any construction, speaker or anything that is used to manipulate the mic will be deemed illegal.
So?.....arent we using our bodies to do this?
Correct me if I'm wrong but the reason our scores go up is because we use our body to form a pocket, or in other words manipulate the mic.

Listen guys, I could care less what we do here. I'm just bringing up some points and one of the biggest ones is the liability we have if someone decides to sue us. If that isn't enough of a reason to change the rule then so be it.

#3 I would like the choice of having a mic monkey or not- for my truck I choose no cause I lose quite a bit with someone in there, but at least I have the choice.
One who has world records, and world championships under his belt I guess.
As you increase your amplitude the Fs of your system changes, the way is moving living breathing thing that will change it's course as new variables are presented. Testing at the level you plan to do in the lanes is the only way to test.

#4 and as far as someone cheating who was it? Or is this another assumption brought about by people just talking Dung Pile, but if you have facts I'd like to hear them.
Facts?, I have none, but if none of us were allowed in the vehicles we wouldnt have all this controversy year after year of people messing with the mic. It's potential for cheating to occur thats the problem.



Nene, none of our votes in competitor committee have any more merit than yours, we're regular members just like you. We're only here only to make sure everyone's voice is heard.

And don't make a threat to me if I pizzed you off, I already know you can beat me up. : o haha

BillGass wrote:

So in answer to my question, it is officially being considered?

That's what I was after. If there's going to be a debate over it, it should be on another thread. Keep this one to suggesting topics.

Yes it is Bill.
One thing to consider is the few of us on this forum only represent a small portion of the USACi member base...which is why the entire competitor committee will be asking members at shows this week for their opinion on the manned or unmanned topic.

We will be giving the results to the rules and ethics board when we accrue at least a 100 votes.

What if you had one person from each team that did the mic monkey thing but for the other teams in that class???Now you would have a choice as to if you wanted them in their or not and it would have to be fair cause if you screwed with the mic so that the score wasnt as high as he could get then that other team might do the same to you!! So it would kinda be like a check and balance type thing right??

it is ny god given right to have a choice- now granted sometimes the choices suck but you still have a choice- have someone sit in the car or don't thats the choice but restricting someone from sitting in the car takes that choice away. the liability issue well thats just common sense and if you lack enough common sense to think your not gonna hurt your ears sitting in a car designed to produce high db's then SORRY ABOUT YOUR LUCK- as far as thinking about myself I thought I made that clear that I am for people sitting in cars but mine doesn't gain from people sitting in it- if you need me to draw you a picture I guess I could do that. the construction of a pocket as opposed to someone sitting in the car is a bit of a stretch- I will give it to you though but are we gonna start stretching all the rules in the same way? Testing at full volume is the only way to test (this what I took from your post mind you) and I as a person without world championships and world records don't know what I am talking about- every person with world records and championships test at full volume all the time everytime? as far as the potential for cheating with someone in the car thats a large assumption-basically since I sit in my teams cars I am cheating- thats is kind of opening a can of worms with out any proof


Don't worry I'm not pissed or anything we can debate this like adults I want a solid argument made against mic monkeys- besides I don't have to be upset to hit people (jk)

well maybe if the economy picks up and obama wins the maybe i will...... till then i don't see me or my mom saying anthing about it! heatwave is tommorrow so we ought to think about what has been done to be able to be cause i don't think so.....

and thats all i have to say about that..

actually you learn alot more at low volume testing than you do at high volume

^^^^^^^^^^^^^What???????? sorry meant for ibbangin!!!!!LOL

alright, yall prolly don't know this bout me, but i'm not a lawyer.....having confirmed that, i don't think usaci could be sued for someone sitting iin ur car?????? i think a court would laugh when u say "i was holding the mic to see how loud something was and it blew my eardrum" u know what could happen! but i'm not a lawyer!!!!!

and i am in no way responsible for anything that happens from taking my advise..... cause i don't know $hit!

Its not even a hearing issue. Other bodily harm can occure at the spl levels cars have gotten to. Like zac said if you don't want it to go to unmanned tell your comitte rep and get your vote in.

I will not be making it to any shows this weekend. I have a full work load schedule. However if anyone on here sees this post and would like to give me a call with reccomendations or opinions please do so. My # is in my sig. I rep the midsouth along with Jimbo.

Pretty much nobody is gonna talk the south into changing they will want manned im almost positive but i will check. I think you guys forgot Usac started here in Texas and we have always sat in vehicles.... Anyway i will be open to listen to your thoughts.

I dont think anyone should be allowed in the vehicle during testing unless its the owner of the car operating the stereo from the drivers seat.
If the driver / operator is sitting in the driver's seat then the mic must be on the passenger side of the vehicle.

I have a show this weekend and will ask fellow competitors about this issue and post results Sunday night.
I urge other commitee members to do so for at least 3 shows and then present it to Ralph and see what and where it stands.

SPL2K wrote:

I dont think anyone should be allowed in the vehicle during testing unless its the owner of the car operating the stereo from the drivers seat.
If the driver / operator is sitting in the driver's seat then the mic must be on the passenger side of the vehicle.

If some on want to sit in a carlike Mike said you must be on the the other side of the car and you must where your seat belt!

Greg McCool wrote:

SPL2K wrote:

I dont think anyone should be allowed in the vehicle during testing unless its the owner of the car operating the stereo from the drivers seat.
If the driver / operator is sitting in the driver's seat then the mic must be on the passenger side of the vehicle.

If some on want to sit in a carlike Mike said you must be on the the other side of the car and you must where your seat belt!

You have to bucke up. It's the law. LOL This is getting out of hand.

it was out of hand a while ago lets see it went from

it unsafe to
there cheating back to
its unsafe

and what cracks me up is the unsafe part I can go with but not all the way if it is unsafe then why did greg just say yeah what mike said but mike said you can be in the drivers seat but i thought it was unsafe.

"cry me a river"

I see once again that Jeff just wants to argue and to twist words around like he’s really good at. Like I said before I don’t think its going to be up to the committee to decide!

What about new competitors that don't have a way to run there system out side the car?
I know most head units come with remotes but not all will work well thru glass and what not.

Maybe only the competitor?
Maybe any class above stock?

I can run either way, don't mater for me, but consider a new competitor not being able to run?