SQ Topics for Members Meeting

As a moderator...I think this may be helpful. Please put anything you want discussed at the Members Meeting pertaining to SQ in this thread. It MAY (no promises) help speed things along.

My competing expert question in the Rules and Ethics area.

SQ Judge qualification/training procedure (rob's post)

New class

Something like Beginner Q

A class that focuses on SQ and no install; excluding advanced, pro, or expert cars. If you win the class at finals one time you cannot run it again; unless you bring another car.

This class should tap into the DIY market. A market that has allot of people that would compete if they felt they had a chance. A market that is full of guys that only care about sound.

...we could consolodate cons and pro intro into one class...it's a one year class anyway. No reason for pro and consumer division here...gives them a reason to jump to intermediate to get cons and pro divisions.

also...I would like to see one other 10 pt category added to the intro score sheet that currently exists...I would like to simply add Tonality...1-10.

...omit creativity in the individual areas on the advanced scoresheets. Just use the bottom section, the judge must list what he/she is giving points for that way.

I would like to see something about moving seat rails and rebuilding dashes in black in white as to which class you should be in? No more grey areas. thinkgs like that.

Join us at the meeting Marquies. I can show you the Minivan! It is a hoot!

Topic: USACi SQ competition out west. (yet another dead horse to beat on)


Recently there was a USACi event put on out in AZ by Second Skin. Everyone knew ahead of time that the event would be SPL only even though several people begged for SQ and a hand full of "decent ears" volunteered to help judge.

They were denied any sanctioned SQ event of any sort by USACi.

Well...Multiple SQ peeps showed up anyway. Reps for Zapco, Image Dynamics, Cascade Audio, Hybrid Audio Technologies, Ultra, Hertz, and Audison were all in attendance. (several more I forgot)

Several local (state wide) shops brought SQ cars for display. Second Skin gave them their own spot at the show to display their cars and speak to the public about SQ. Product was on display and being given away either through raffle drawings or contests.

It would seem that the local shops and manus that were at this event have seen some benefit from this show. Good for them. You know who really lost out on this one? USACi and the SQ competitors that's who.

USACi could have seen higher numbers in it's SQ competition for the season right after Finals. The competiors would have the bug to attend more shows (if SQ were allowed).

I am posting this as a subject to bring up at the meeting because I was asked to by some of the guys out there that attended this paticular show.

These guys are already looking into other options if USACi can't allow them to play at their events. Sure allowing IASCA and MECA points to be used toward USACi Fianls will help them out if they choose to come. However the formats are different. Why would I want to go to MECA or IASCA fianls just because they would let me? Unless I was able to get to a few shows and learn the format.

The Second Skin event was a pretty big hit. They rounded up a nice chunk of change for a local charity. The charity stated that it was about four times the amount as the last benefit they held! Too bad they are looking at changing orgs for the next one. This looks like a show that could start to grow.

on most of the fliers posted ... i did not see any SQ symbol like the ones for spl, bass race, etc ... the new usaci site has a cool symbol for SQ now ... it needs to be on the advertisements just like the spl stuff ...

I agree with you 100%

jkrob21 wrote:

Topic: USACi SQ competition out west. (yet another dead horse to beat on)


Recently there was a USACi event put on out in AZ by Second Skin. Everyone knew ahead of time that the event would be SPL only even though several people begged for SQ and a hand full of "decent ears" volunteered to help judge.

They were denied any sanctioned SQ event of any sort by USACi.

Well...Multiple SQ peeps showed up anyway. Reps for Zapco, Image Dynamics, Cascade Audio, Hybrid Audio Technologies, Ultra, Hertz, and Audison were all in attendance. (several more I forgot)

Several local (state wide) shops brought SQ cars for display. Second Skin gave them their own spot at the show to display their cars and speak to the public about SQ. Product was on display and being given away either through raffle drawings or contests.

It would seem that the local shops and manus that were at this event have seen some benefit from this show. Good for them. You know who really lost out on this one? USACi and the SQ competitors that's who.

USACi could have seen higher numbers in it's SQ competition for the season right after Finals. The competiors would have the bug to attend more shows (if SQ were allowed).

I am posting this as a subject to bring up at the meeting because I was asked to by some of the guys out there that attended this paticular show.

These guys are already looking into other options if USACi can't allow them to play at their events. Sure allowing IASCA and MECA points to be used toward USACi Fianls will help them out if they choose to come. However the formats are different. Why would I want to go to MECA or IASCA fianls just because they would let me? Unless I was able to get to a few shows and learn the format.

The Second Skin event was a pretty big hit. They rounded up a nice chunk of change for a local charity. The charity stated that it was about four times the amount as the last benefit they held! Too bad they are looking at changing orgs for the next one. This looks like a show that could start to grow.

really take care of the sq judges in all fashions
rob

I want to talk about priority in local events. The local events I have been to push the SQ guys to the side, end, and sometimes forget about the SQ guys all together. If you want to encourage people you have to put some focus on something besides SPL! What is USAC going to do to address this issue?

That's a good question.
Rob

This goes with John Roberts question....

How can you have USACi representatives that don't even run SQ much less believe or support it at their shows? It it my understanding that you have at least one USACi event coordinator that WILL NOT add SQ to any event that he coordinates in his region. How can this be? If they are to represent USACi as a regional event coordinator, then that event should have every aspect USACi supports. SPL, SQ and Car Show. This way nobody is being left out of the loop and all have a chance to compete.

thats a valid point

I mentioned this on another post about the SPL only shows. I never have understood the reason behind this. We should address this at the meeting.

At the 06 finales I met one of the Directors that was doing this SPL only type of show and i asked how and why he was able to do things this way. He told me that there was no Money in SQ and that USACi gives all there Directors this option. I will not name names, but it was one of USACi oldest Directors. He also told me that he would never do an SQ show again. So if you want to know why SQ is dying just remember that story.

It seems to me a lot of people in the Mobile Electronics Field have forgotten who brought them to the party.

yup, two directors, that are great guys mind you...but they are in IASCA's hot territory and won't do SQ shows...knowing we could pull cars. CA and FL.

Well said

Proposed class changes should be as follows.....
1. Eliminate Intro Pro & DTS class
2. Create a new Intro or Beginner "Q" class judged with identical sheet currently for Consumer & Pro categories just different
class, geared more for beginners and those who currently compete
in other organizations who don't care about install so much but don't want to be thrown in a class with big budget cars.
3. No Expert in Pro "Q" class. Simple unfair. Expert should stay Expert. THis is a class that basically speaks for itself.
4. Best of Show award??? hmmm. Technically BOS is the best car at the show which I would agree with BUT grouping the Expert cars in this category with Pros and Consumers doesn't seem right either. Again, Expert cars should be in the current Expert class and that be it. I would like to see, maybe, a People's Choice Award or something similar voted on by the judges, staff, and some type of spectator input for an overall Award for a single car at the show.

Just my thoughts...A few other changes need to be made but I feel like these are pretty solid. None of which are intended to upset anyone but to draw "new blood" into USACi, a few common sense things need to be addressed.

Todd Crowder
Team TCA
24 World Championships
2010........coming strong.....????

New "Extreme" class ??? Is this something that is going to exist in the new rules for 2010 or not??? Mixed feelings on this one. If, in fact, a car or cars do decide to compete with the "single seat" of major altered seats they do need to be in a class by themselves. I'm not trying to stir the pot on this one, but if we're all going to a Rules Meeting then we need to get it all out there and be done with it.
NO GRAY AREAS. SImple black and white.

Problem at meeting is going to be time frame to actually get Dung Pile done that's important. I'm figuring SQ portion will probably have roughly 2 1/2 or maybe 3 hours total. Not too much time to screw around with topics that aren't going to matter.

First priority should be to discuss future direction of USACI Sound Quality, class changes and concerns, and any major rules issues. There are several. Time, again is going to be the problem.

There needs to be a few class changes to get new people into the sport. Intro and Intermediate now are pretty cut and dry but I do feel like adding a new more entry level "Q" only class just as the other two current ones will really help. Along with the "FIrst for Free" program and the "Points Sharing" programs. These are awesome ideas, Ralph. I just don't want it to be too late.

Let's all keep posting ideas here and get some of them narrowed down before the Rules Meeting so we can actually show up, vote, and get Dung Pile done. I will be attending and will be bringing probably 5 or 6 more people.

Todd Crowder
Team TCA
24 World Championships
2010........coming strong.....????

Well put

ah...At Regional and Finals events...all sound judging in advanced classes, consumer, pro, and expert, to be judged by two sound judges seated side by side, scoring simultaneously. If only one judge can get in the vehicle at a time to score the car, the car is not allowed to score higher than 50% in any given category on the SQ sheet. There will be no alternating of judges. These are two seat classes and will require two judges simultaneously, side by side.

Just to let you know Todd, I will be in the lanes with the honda in december. And yes it does have a single seat. I hope that the class remains.

Chris, no one said you were not going to get to compete with your car just like it is. I don't want start anything. But calm down, it will all work out. Todd was just making his opinion known. We can talk about it at SEMA.
Rob

Cool Chris...I'm sure you understand the dilemma then. No need to rehash all the old arguments on this topic. But I think everyone STILL AGREES that vehicles with one seat should be in a class by themselves.

My main concerns are that USACi does not want to add any more classes but probably eliminate a few. Thus leading to fewer trophies, etc needed for each show. I don't see how you can do too much with what we currently have other than restructure SQ to contain 10 classes total, Proposed would be:

1. Beginner or Intro "Q"
2. Consumer "Q"
3. Pro "Q"
ALL ABOVE WITH EXACT SAME SCORE SHEETS
4. Cons. Beginner or current Intro SQ (expanding 10 add. points for tonality)
5. Cons. Intermediate SQ (maybe add 10 point section for creativity)
6. Cons. Advanced SQ
ELIMINATE SPL FROM SCORESHEET ENTIRELY ON INT. & ADV.
7. Pro Intermediate SQ (or rename)
8. Pro Advanced SQ
ELIMINATE SPL EITHER ENTIRELY OR MAKE IT MORE IN ADV. ONLY
9. Expert SQ
10. Extreme SQ (or whatever its going to be called)
DISCUSS WHETHER SPL SHOULD BE IN/OUT AND WHAT CAP ????


Just thoughts...It makes more sense to me. You still end up with the same amount of total classes, so awards, etc would be the same. I think by altering the Beginner, Intro classes and possible adding a little to Intermediate that this will intise new competitors.
No offense to the DTS guys, but lack of support here....I just don't see it. And Pro cars should be either Inter. or Adv. No need for Intro here.

Todd Crowder
Team TCA
24 World Championships
2010..........coming strong........????

Just to clarify... Expert and Extreme should be the UNLIMITED NO HOLDS BARRED BIG DOG RUN WHAT U BRUNG CLASSES, right?? SO question remains, if they are the big classes should SPL be a variable?? One would think YES. Makes no difference to me personally. If and when I build my own car, I will be at a disadvantage by having unlimited SPL but being an UNBIASED person, I can't help but think that if you are competing in the "BIG DOG" class, shouldnt you be able to DO IT ALL ???

If SO, by adding a section for UNLIMITED SPL or at least a 150dB CAP and make each point count for 1 over 100dB it would be much like older rules where even when SPL counted, on a 450+ point scoresheet, its still only a SMALL PERCENTAGE of the overall score.
Make sense but this will be one that comes to a VOTE....

Todd Crowder
Team TCA
24 World Championships
2010..........coming strong........????

SPL should be in every class!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the orgs are truly here topromote the industry, that would mean that they should also help drive sales... allowing sq competitors the ability to compete at a high end level and be able to do so with nothing but an 10 inch woofer does not help my friends that own stores sell more woofers, bigger woofer, or larger amplifiers to operate the larger systems.... It doesnt help manufactures sell more product.... the list goes on......

spl in every class, just cap the different classes if you want.. But by all means, lets sell some product..........

Add RTA too,,,, I have always been a supporter of RTA, and SPL... these are the only aspects of the event that a machine has the final say so,,, no personal opinions here,,,,, in a different post someone stated, "when we gat a computer that can score a sq car then well have it made" ha! we do! add RTA and SPL back in! So what if you think its not relevant, and that those are sales tools... ahhhhh sales tools,,,,, lets generate sales! add RTA and SPL!!!!
Let me beat that dead horse one more time,,, ADD RTA AND SPL!!!!!!

so you are saying that you want to bring back RTA and SPL...is that what I am getting from you?? You were a bit vague. j/k gary...it could be the end to a means...but if we are going to do it, let's just get one added in. they both use a machine and RTA isn't going to sell product nearly as well as SPL. So if we were to add SPL back in the mix, then product will sell, more interest would be added, and possibly those who have been the staples on the stage might be overthrown too.

Not that I think I have any chance with a convertible. LOL