SQ..we need power classes back

Just for Finals IMO. Just two classes in each of Intermediate and Advanced would be fine. Maybe 1000watts as the split.
I'm speaking on behalf of our Team here. We're starting to stack 3 and 4 Team members per class. We've said fine...we don't need to recruit new Team for that class. I think having your own team 3-4 deep in a class sctually chokes SQ growth.
Let's take this away from a manufacturer team and look at this like a shop's team. Now it's worse. That shop may be able to get a couple more cars in the lanes if there were power classes. That may only mean 5000 per car labor profit...but it could mean way way way much more. That in the economy the way it stands is worth pushing ans fighting for IMO.
I just wanted to open this to R&E.
I said Finals only to save on trophy expense at the shows. That was my idea of a compromise.

Don't flame me. I'm just trying to be professionally productive and help shops, USACi, and manufacturers at the same time.

Were all of the classes even full at finals? It seemed like some weren't full. If we can fill the current classes what is the point in making more classes? Not starting anything, just doesn't seem to be the right time for this.

OK...look at it a different way. Let's say three Teams stack Intermediate Consumer and Advanced Consumer. Those three Teams bring home the majority of 1st through 5th. How do those other guys feel?
Really, the only immdiate concern would be intermediate cons and pro. Like you said mike, classes aren't stacked. That's really the class with the issue. Well, technically...intro needs it too. That'd leave advanced an open class. Question though...how long will Expert remain with 2 or 3 cars in it? Then pro adv gets interesting.

I would love to see the classes expanded. Problem is participation. With the exception fo finals we have little to no SQ turnout at most events. If we start seeing more SQ at local events then we can entertain the idea of expanding it. As for Expert, that is a class that may dissapear soon as well.

Yeah...that's why I said at Finals only. I totally agree...only 2 or 3 big shows bring out the SQ cars. Would doing the power class expansion at Finals only be 'out'?

I like any way to get SQ back in the swing of things.

I wouldn't mind the whole power thing, but, without SPL...I still say that has nothing to do with SQ.

We could do SPL.

To get more competitors, there needs to be more than one judge at some of the shows. Too many times I have been at shows where SPL gets cranked up, and the SQ cars don't even get judged. This makes it tough to get people interested if there is no time spent on them.

No disrespect to SPL-I play in that area also.

yup...that's a whole 'nother topic that's not 'rules' per se. Let's stay on track.

jsketoe wrote:

yup...that's a whole 'nother topic that's not 'rules' per se. Let's stay on track.

no problem.

IMO, I do think that we should have power classes brought back in the smaller/beginner divisions. Nothing over the top, perhaps 0-300 and 300+ like it was a few years back. Makes it less intimidating for newbies. Especially if 2 friends show up at the same show. If they have to compete against eachother, they may pass, but if they can enter and run is different classes, it may just be enough to get them going. That is exactly how my friends and I got started.
As far as advanced classes, I'm open to whatever we do there. I have placed in adv. and gotten my rear handed to me.

600 was the last split. I'd say 1000 to be safe.

if you have too many teamates in certian classes why would you not spread them out to other open classes?

I mean it's been years since i have done anything involved with usaci or SQ but i would seem to me that you would just build your cars for the class for the least amount of competitors that way it helps fill ALL classes.


Oh and if usaci needs judges they know who to call

you don't understand...when you have 3-4 cars wanting to do the same class, you start asking yourself if you are helping or not. Look at it from a shops standpoint.

Hmmm...

So if you get rid of the Expert Class, you end up not having some of the more experienced competitors there with some of the more extreme cars on display at the shows?

Sure, there aren't that many Expert competitors, but then not many people are willing to put that much time and effort into building a vehicle to compete in the class. I would think it would be a good idea to try to entice more people to step up to the Expert level from the Pro classes. If the top Pro competitors can be convinced to move up, it opens up the Pro class for some consumers to move into, and all the classes would have room to grow. If the Experts are forced to compete in the Pro classes, or worse yet, chased away all together, all of the SQ classes would suffer.

Give competitors an incentive to move up, and they will.

Remember, most Expert competitors spend a lot of time at the shows helping other competitors, answering questions, showing their cars, etc. Take away the top level of competition, and there is much less incentive for these competitors to come to the shows.

As far as power classes, when we had 20+ cars in each power class, that was great. Lots of competition!

At Finals last year, how many cars were in each of the classes? If a class has 25 or more cars in it, then I'd agree that a case could be made to split it.

Mark I agree with the Expert thing. Really, I'd like to see expert stay...we've got a couple of those on the building blocks. I'd just like to see at least intro and intermediate split. If you split consumer or pro advanced I have a feeling we'd all be in the same class pretty much anyway.

I agree with both. I think that expert should stay. In my opinion, the expert class has always set the bar as far as extreme sq. It gives all sq competitors something to shoot for.

As far as advanced, most everyone in that class right now is familiar with eachother, and splitting the class probably not help bring in new competitors, but I believe it would if intro was split

yeah...intro and intermediate power classes only. Ralph, just Finals...not any other shows. Think about it?

I think Mark is right unless there are 15-20+ cars in a class there is no reason to split them.

Also, Expert should stay and more Advanced cars should step up and play.

jsketoe wrote:

We're starting to stack 3 and 4 Team members per class. We've said fine...we don't need to recruit new Team for that class. I think having your own team 3-4 deep in a class sctually chokes SQ growth.

John I understand your team is growing but...

You guys didn't field a car in several of the classes at finals last year: Intro Pro, Adv. Pro, and Expert and only 1 all other classes except Pro Q.

imo usaci should do away with the intro class at finals.....the way this class is setup u only win on your spl score anyway....everyone maxs out the sound and install part of the sheet because it is so basic....as far as splitting the classes there needs to be at least 20 cars to even consider such a change....if we keep simplifying all the classes and rules we will continue to shrink......everyone needs to build the cars the best they can and quit building them for a specific class

Rick...we're looking at cars for this year...it's not just our team either. I know of a couple of shops having this problem building multiple cars for one class.
Mickey...I think we would have to be around 20 as well...just for cost and competition sake. I know intro was never intended to be at Finals. I personally have watched intro at Finals draw those guys to stick around and upgrade cars. So, I see both sides.

ok the big problem is money.

entry fees are to high to get kids to compete regularly.

Dung Pile when there was a show almost every weekend that competitor had to dish out some loot.

now i take people to shows to try and get them excited about it and all i hear is how expensive it is.

one thing is trophies.........WHY!

who needs more useless plastic.
how about computer generated certificates that has there spl and or sq scores displayed NICELY on it. so it doesn't look cheap (but it is)

imo the shows entry fee should never be over $20. finals and regs yes but 1,2,3 no.

then the judge would not have to carry all those trophies to the show. most of them are beat up by the time a competitor gets it anyway.
you could have as many classes as you want. and the judge would give everyone a certificate. maybe even special awards just print them out.....cheap.

trying to build a shop team with more than one per class is trouble. which ever one loses will blame you.

Hello everyone I new to this forum from USACi. Can't believe I didn't find this out when I first started. But anyways I am from Missouri with team O.N.C.C. with Dave Young and we have 2 to even maybe 4 more cars doing SQ along with Dave, Bill, Richard(Red) and I. So our team will have 6-10 more competitors. But I am sure all of you know Dave is outta our class, but the rest of us will be competing against each other soon. I moved up a class because I was against two of my teammates so I moved up to give them a chance hahaha. So I think power classes would be good.

Crush wrote:

ok the big problem is money.

entry fees are to high to get kids to compete regularly.

Dung Pile when there was a show almost every weekend that competitor had to dish out some loot.

now i take people to shows to try and get them excited about it and all i hear is how expensive it is.

one thing is trophies.........WHY!

who needs more useless plastic.
how about computer generated certificates that has there spl and or sq scores displayed NICELY on it. so it doesn't look cheap (but it is)

imo the shows entry fee should never be over $20. finals and regs yes but 1,2,3 no.

then the judge would not have to carry all those trophies to the show. most of them are beat up by the time a competitor gets it anyway.
you could have as many classes as you want. and the judge would give everyone a certificate. maybe even special awards just print them out.....cheap.

trying to build a shop team with more than one per class is trouble. which ever one loses will blame you.

We tried certificates for a long time just a few years back. The Old School guys were happ but the new guys hated it. They wnated a trophy to put onn the shelf for bragging rights. They ahted the paper and so we stopped it. I still have several thousand full color certificates that we cannot use.

I'll take the certificates.

I only like the trophies at the major events anyways...actually, I only like the plaques off of the trophies from the major shows.

:p

I don't agree with power classes UNLESS there are like 20 people in the class.

Sure, some shops might have 3 or 4 cars that would compete in the same class, but it's the SHOPS job to set that expectation. IT's not up to the REST of us to have to suffer from the shops lack of an ability to set the expectation for their customers.

Either the customer is willing to spend the money and the time and dedicate themselves to the cause or they aren't. And even then, they might not win.

The shop and the installer need to spend the time to explain that to the customer.

If the customer wants to complain about that and make a big scene about it, the the shop needs to reevaluate how they are handling the way they are approaching that aspect of their business. Apparently they aren't setting those expectations right from the beginning.

And I agree 100% about KEEPING the expert class.

To get rid of that class would be a HUGE mistake.

I know we're planning on making the move in the next few years. If it's gone....where would we go? Just sit in the same class for years upon years upon years? Hrmm...that doesn't sound like so much fun...

You can't blame building more than one car per class on the shop. They're trying to make a buck and support the sport. They just want to keep customers happy. That's the positive side of the power class thing. Now I agree...we show up at Finals and there are10 cars there for Intermediate Consumer/Pro...then heck no we don't need power classes. I was thinking the same number guys...somewhere around 20. I have a feeling the economy is going to have its way with our hobby...everyone is picking and choosing a handful of shows this year instead of doing A LOT of them. Big positive though...gas is cheap.

I'm not blaming the shop, I'm just saying that they need to do more to prepare the customer.

As an entity that's taking a customers money, and as a customer that's telling the shop that they want to win, they need to step up and set the expectation for the customer.

Many times, these customers don't have a full understanding of what they are getting themselves into. They really think they can throw a bunch of money at it and they should be able to win. IMHO, it's the shops responsibility at that point to sit the customer down, like mommy and daddy, and explain to them, how they can expect it to go down. Not just take the money and build and move on with things.

we use to make sure the customers that were competing knew each other. That way they could listen to each other's cars. If you as a shop are tuning and installing then the customer truly looks to you and says they want to win.
your statement about doing the mommy-daddy talk is SO true.

Most definately keep expert, use power classes only if and when it becomes necessary, and give us up and comers something to shoot for. I do have to agree about Intro. Re-do the score sheet to allow scoring for what a car does well, and do away with the spl aspect altogether. If a person wants to compete, they already know where they want to focus, either in SQ, or in SPL. I see no reason to combine the two.