Incorparating a MSRP based division...

Please, don't bother replying in this thread with negative remarks unless you completely read my posts. I know they are long sometimes but I read everybody elses completely, please do the same for me if you plan on replying. Thanks

Quote :

BillGass wrote:
I wish that more retailers would look at it this way. If you want to succeed you have to advertise, in some form or another. Word of mouth is great, it can make or break you but you cannot stand on it alone. You have to promote yourself.

Have a show, get people out to see what is going on. Then, like Jimbo said, if you get a bite or two it's all worth it. Don't expect the organization to be able to get the word out to YOUR customers. They can't. That is your end of the deal. The organization can make national competitors aware of it through tools like this forum. That's it. The rest is up to the store.

The shop that Rowland works at in Atlantic, IA, Custom Body & Sound, hold a show every year in conjunction with the town festival. Turnout is always good and you get the town to see what you are doing. These events are as easy to get involved in with a competition in larger towns, but it is in Atlantic. They capitalize on this event and it certainly is an element of their success.

No one has all of the answers and no one does everything right, however there certainly ways of doing things wrong and the biggest one is not to do anything at all.

Very True.
A store shouldn't rely on USACi to advertise their business, this would be foolish business practice.
However, exploiting USACi, is indeed promoting a business.

I think we're all on the same page, USACi is an important part of the 12volt industry. I'm not sure why we're debating whether or not USACi should be solely responsible for advertising a business haha, but we all agree it can be extremely beneficial. I think maybe we're confusing promoting and advertising.
A store advertises a sale, a store promotes an event. Either way, no point in splitting hairs we all agree on something....stores share responsibility when promoting an event, thats a no brainer.

Hey Bill, let me ask you...
As a retailer, what is it you hope to accomplish by holding an event?
What type of turnout do you look for?
For me the answer to that question would be--in hopes of attracting new customers that wouldnt have otherwise known about the store. Also, give our day to day customers a place to show off their systems.
This leads me to the concern I've been talking about throughout this thread. I've heard many shops in the midwest shy away from and dislike sanctioned events because it draws out pro competitors. Of course pros are welcomed but the concern these shops have is the placement of them against their customers.
If there was a division that separated their day to day customers from the pros it wouldnt be an issue. As Jeff has so explicitly expressed, USACi already offers a local class, cool, that settles it for me but I've never seen any at our local events. :/

Would you guys agree on average, a typical customer, for any car audio shop across the nation, spends on average about 500-1000 bucks, give or take?
These are the customers that retailers like me would like to bring into the comps. But these customers are very reluctant because they understand their 5 or 6 hundred dollar system will never hang with those 800 dollar DD's and 1500 dollar M3.
But what if we could tell that kid he can enter a class where nobody will have a system thats any more expensive than his. Would that entice the kid into coming to a show? I don't know, but I think it might.

I'm not sure thats enough temptation for a competitor but if we did offer a class that gives them a fighting chance they may just get that bug many of us did years ago and decide to go all out someday. (I know, that was a really long run-on sentence haha)
I don't think offering an MSRP based division is the best idea out there, its just a suggestion that I think is worth looking into.
Puting a kid with a $500 system up against another $500 system seems about as fair as anybody could get.

A few of us have reiterated many times over in multiple threads the benefits this division could possibly bring to USACi, the consumer, the manufacturers, and the industry as a whole.
A few could be:

From a consumer's standpoint,
1 He can afford to compete on a limited budget
2 He has the assurance of knowing his $500 system won't be up against a $5000 system haha
3 He may get the itch from a few shows and become a serious competitor

From a retailers standpoint,
1 The more classes the more trophies for your customers, never a bad thing
2 Your smaller customers get a chance to brag or get a trophy.
3 Customers word of mouth, won a trophy and only had to spend $500( the value of your installs goes up)
4 A customer who's never buys from retailers, only online, he gets beat and comes into your store needing professional help installing.

From a manufacturers standpoint,
1 Gives a chance to the companies who don't offer serious grade equipment to the mass market, (sony, kenwood, ect)
2 Manufacturers can showcase their lower line equipment. Example, everybody knows the Pioneer spl woofers are great, but what if their cheap $50 subs started winning in the lanes?

From USACi's standpoint,
1 more trophies handed out = more dollas from entry fees
2 Possible new manu support from Sony now that their subs are actually competitive, just an example
3 The member base increases, increasing USACi's value

I don't know, theres a bunch of ways a person could spin it, hell i'm sure theres a few negative things that could be said about having an MSRP division. I'm sure there are, but so could be said about any class, nothing's perfect.

I guess what I was trying to point out is that retailers are losing more and more customers every day to internet sales. We're not only talking about car audio, we're talking any and everything. Vacuum cleaner stores, photography shops, music stores, ect.
One thing that sets certain retailers apart from others is the product they sell and how the consumer uses it. We don't see many carpet stores closing the doors due to internet sales for one major reason, the customer needs the product installed.

Installation is something the internet can't compete with us on, its the only actually, most anything we sell is sold at or below our dealer cost to everyday consumers online.
Manufacturers have allowed their products to be sold on the net at dealer costs for years now. This generation of car audio enthusiasts have been raised on the internet, literally. They know how to shop, and they're not afraid to buy online. We're losing this generation, they don't need us retailers anymore. Heck, most of them look up an online tutorial for basic installation which circumvents our stores completely.

We're losing sales to the internet on a daily basis. Sure we'll have our customers that are loyal, and we'll see the customers who save online then come to us for install. But what about the ones out there you've never had the chance to meet?, that bought online and self installed. The volume of consumers like this is rising.
Today?, maybe not the biggest deal, but the future of our industry is changing at a blistering pace.

What can we do to let the customer know we are important to them?
Why should they spend extra money at our store when online is cheaper?
Why should they pay us to install their system when they're perfectly capable of doing it themselves?

I don't have the answers. But I can say this.
At a comp in the $0-500 class, my customer with his 2 CVR's and 750.1,
and the kid who self installed his 2 CVR's and 750.1 bought online,
my customer will be louder.
Hopefully that kid will realize getting his system professionally installed is worth the extra money.

I think if Usaci charge less for da shows it would increase how many show there r I remeber when mark was still alive we had shows around Austin every other weeken he cut them deals. Shops don't see spending more than 200 dollars as a good advesments mabey if the shops could get x amount of ppl they could get a price break were the money Usaci loses on the shows cost they make up in entrys.

Sounds like a pretty good idea, but IMHO needs tweeking.

It would really help retailers that fighting the very brands they sell being sold below dealer cost online. It would be hell to police though.


Also, for Pros/OG's...I can see "online" audio companies dominating in the lower classes. (Fi, Audioque, etc)

Just think about it...0-$500.

System sold are retailer--- Zx500.1, 2 CVR12
vs
Online system--- AQ1200, 2 SSD12 (or AQ2.5's)

Canaan, competitors can still buy the equipment online and compete, they don't need a receipt.
A kid could spend the 500 at a store on that Kicker system or buy the very same stuff online for only 240 and still compete in the 500 class. Because its the MSRP that we go by, not the actual price they pay for it.

I know, your asking then how would this help retailers?, what I'm thinking is no matter what kids are goin to buy gear wherever its cheapest, but they'll have to come to our shops to help them with their builds.

Policing the MSRP costs is very easy. Theres a bluebook that has the orgininal cost of virtually every car audio product for the last few decades.

You think this would work?

Zac, We had an organization here in Arkansas that was based off MSRP. It had some good competition, but there was always someone with an amp that didn't have an MSRP for it or something. I like the idea of making it a level playing field for newcomers. It would take some time and research to get MSRP for most all amps that people would use to compete also.

Great

We're getting somewhere.
What if we were able to get the MSRP of all equipment?

I think we can with the bluebook. Larry Pagelsdorf (our reginal director) has a couple from the last few decades.

I guess the next step is calling him up and seeing how accurate and vast it really is.

Zac,
To my knowledge (which may very well be lacking in this area), there are quite a few companies that offer 'online only' sales and there list price is "MSRP". Correct?

So..."list" on an AQ HDC315+AQ2200 is roughly the same as a ZX500.1+CVR15 combo.

Now, given the same vehicle and equally well done installs...what would you say comes out on top?

Other than that and the random no-name amp showing up, I can see this being tweeked enough to work pretty well.

I understand completely what your getting at, and thats pretty much what the consumer will have to figure out.

To answer your question about your example of which would be better?...

HDC315= 249
AQ2200= 389
total= 638

ZX500.1= 399
CVR15= 249
total= 648


yeah, I agree, the AQ is a much better value.

I think it would just be to hard on the Judges part to check every vehicle to make sure it fits in the certain class, I have seen some people in my area use older amps say like the HCCA series amps and old Lanzar HC amps, so the judge would have to have a book that has EVERY company with EVERY piece of equipment they ever sold thats the only downfall I see to using this type of divisions.

TeamSpead-Kenny wrote:

I think it would just be to hard on the Judges part to check every vehicle to make sure it fits in the certain class, I have seen some people in my area use older amps say like the HCCA series amps and old Lanzar HC amps, so the judge would have to have a book that has EVERY company with EVERY piece of equipment they ever sold thats the only downfall I see to using this type of divisions.

Those are all listed in the orion blue book, it wouldn't be hard to create a data base with most of the amps made with msrp.

This would prolly take 4x as much work and time for a USACI show.

Good Luck pushing it forward, would be a fun lil project

It would be a pain to police (at first), but if inforced properly it would force people to run in the proper class.

Hell, I see people duck classes all the time because the judges have no idea what they are running. They just sign up and run.
(Lost my State record to a guy that did that Dung Pile, he ran a stetsom 7k in mod0-1000)

I agree there are arguments on both sides, but I actually feel this could work. I'm really liking this, from a retailers standpoint.

Maybe setup a spreadsheet w/ MSRP for all the judges?

If you can't find the amp, rate it at $0.75/watt rms???
Likely have to tweak that #.

Regardless of the ratings, the best builders will be on top.


Edit:
After typing this, I started looking around the shop thinking "What can I put someone in for $500". Just thinking about it from the retail side of things really gets me pretty excited.

Canaan wrote:

It would be a pain to police (at first), but if inforced properly it would force people to run in the proper class.

Hell, I see people duck classes all the time because the judges have no idea what they are running. They just sign up and run.
(Lost my State record to a guy that did that Dung Pile, he ran a stetsom 7k in mod0-1000)

I agree there are arguments on both sides, but I actually feel this could work. I'm really liking this, from a retailers standpoint.

Maybe setup a spreadsheet w/ MSRP for all the judges?

If you can't find the amp, rate it at $0.75/watt rms???
Likely have to tweak that #.

Regardless of the ratings, the best builders will be on top.


Edit:
After typing this, I started looking around the shop thinking "What can I put someone in for $500". Just thinking about it from the retail side of things really gets me pretty excited.

Ya it shouldnt be too hard. As it is right now a lotta times we just take the competitors word for it on their 4 ohm rating. For local shows I don't think its that big of a deal, most competitors kinda police this themselves if they feel someone is using somethin they shouldnt be.
Did you check out that Orion book at work? Is it the one that is nothin but car audio or is it one that has a little of everything in it?

I hoping we can work a deal with the Orion Blue Book company.
I bet we could get a free book for each region director if we advertise their company here in USACi. We could put a banner up for them at finals, and maybe an add on our forum.
Also, the MSRP class would actually bring them business because they sell individual price-lookups on their site. Say one of us comes accross an amp or subs we got used and have no idea the price because we cant find it anywhere on the net, we could simply get on Orion's site and pay 5 bucks for'em to look it up.

I don't know though, I don't think many people are listening around the office to our suggestions. Sometimes I wonder why I put so much effort into this org when if none of our ideas will be considered.

Yea, I use the car audio orion blue book at work everyday.

your problem is people who purchase online


your solution is and always has been.

if your product was not purchased from a retail store you are PRO.

you buy at cost, you install it, your pro

that leaves the consumer classes for the real customers. the one that through thier purchases pay for the show.

Crush wrote:

your problem is people who purchase online


your solution is and always has been.

if your product was not purchased from a retail store you are PRO.

you buy at cost, you install it, your pro

that leaves the consumer classes for the real customers. the one that through thier purchases pay for the show.

Thats not a bad idea, kind of a way to penalize those who buy online, but it would be too hard to enforce. People don't carry receipts for the gear to shows, so it would be too hard to prove whether or not they bought it from a real shop or from some online site. The idea of this class is great, if every judge could get their hands on a real list for it. It's hard enough already to get 4 ohm rating lists in the hands of judges as it is now, it'll make it even harder to get an msrp list to the judges, and to then enforce it.