Caps Assistance

First topic message reminder :




Did you guys do this? LOL


Trying out some caps. Wanted to get some assistance on really how to use them safely.

On a 12 and 16v system...

On the 12v are you doing 6 2.2v caps = 13.2v or what is the end voltage to go by. Dont want to over charge or under charge and have issues.

im giving you real world comparissons here man
an educated man would have an issue figuring this out as i knew you would, but one with common sence already knows the asnwer

chrisbaldelli wrote:

You're 100% correct! For burp classes, caps offer a huge advantage vs. batteries. Take the energy output and divide by 5 seconds instead of 30... and you get 6kW per large module.

My chief reason for throwing some numbers up, was to show that it's equally feasible to run caps in street beat if you've got the cash.

With regard to the legality of caps, it's only a matter of time until the Bald Bandit realizes that the rules are being circumvented. Set some records before then!

@ Chad - Sorry to say, but a Battery = Capacitor + slow chemical reaction. Both have an internal resistance and capacitance. Batteries are high capacitance and high internal resistance. The primary difference is discharge rate. The chemical reaction take time and is temperature dependent. When the battery sees a low load impedance, it tries to send more current. Internal resistance generates heat and a voltage drop. When the battery heats up, the internal resistance and reaction rate both go up slightly.

The above setup has the energy storage capacity of roughly 50 alkaline AA batteries or 100 rechargable NiCad AA's. You just can't discharge 50 AAs in 5 seconds

3rd table down

Chris, once again you need to figure out how to do your calculations, you missed something that once you figure it out you will slap yourself in the head.

the discharge rate between a cap and a battery is not a slight diffference, it is a huge difference and that is why the caps are so strong

geoff only has 3857 farad, and not 189,000 farad like in your calculations.

after you realize this, your jaw will drop at how much energy they are producing.

Agree, I shouldn't have replied to you since you were trying to change the focus of the matter, I did because you asked that that is also true.

You can try to change the conversation route and tap yourself on the back as much as you can for that, but that won't change the simple fact that Ultracaps are energy storing devices and are better than batteries for our specific use (SPL). Adding a couple batteries to a bank of ultracaps makes it even better (for that case where you have to do a re run without charging) and there won't be any example proving otherwise.

It's called doing your homework murillo. Researching every part of your build and building it to be it's best, i could just as easily change your quote to this.

muriloalvares wrote:

I'm impressed this have been going on for years! After all who wouldn't want to buy a PANDA and beat who doesn't use them?

lol its ok man you dont know just admit it

lol thats right chad its ok to do the thing in one way, but not ok to do it in another lol

im going to answer if you you Murillo

ITS THE BUILD

plain and simple there not the same even though in the same type of vehicle one is alot more efficient on batteries than the one on the win all capacitors that your talking Dung Pile on.

the caps obviousely arent everything and this example proves that.

kickercrx wrote:

I'm sorry for editing your quote, that is impolite

No problem man.

Well, I guess we are done here. The facts are stated, the smart guys are buying Ultracaps because they are smart and know that Ultracaps are ENERGY STORING DEVICES and have little to do with old 1F capacitors, life goes on.

tata

build wins over power man you know this to be fact

i mean you have a 160db car with only 4900 watts lol and all this being leagal on the dash.

Back of the napkin calculations are rarely perfect, but the power output is

7 BCAP3000's in series. 9 sets paralleled.

Capacitors in series follow the 1/C_total = 1/C_1 + 1/C_2 +... Capacitors in parallel add.

1/C_total = 1/3000+1/3000+...
= 7/3000
C_total = 428.6500 F @ 18.9 V (2.7 per cap)

9 banks = 3857 F @ 18.9 V. We're only allowed 15.5 for stock and SB.

E = 1/2 * C * V^2
= 1/2 * 3857 * 15.5^2
= 463 kJ

Similarly,
E = 1/2 * 3857 * 11.1^2
= 238 kJ

(463-238)/30 seconds = 7.5 kW
(463-238)/5 seconds = 45 kW

No doubt, my capacitance number was wrong. I did a 1*63 array instead of a 7x9 array. The operating voltage was scaled from 18.9 to 2.7 though. Power output is the same.

The point Murilo is making is that a 45kW power source is technically not a battery, but everyone agrees that it does the same job and performs BETTER. Is there any good reason not to regulate this in the rules?

Everyone plays by the same rules .so-----

sanman wrote:

build wins over power man you know this to be fact

i mean you have a 160db car with only 4900 watts lol and all this being leagal on the dash.

wrong jeff its who has the most money and a d5.........lol

Well this has been an eventful thread....

@ Chris, you're correct. It's fair competition. But just like the class restructuring you've been discussing, the goal of the rules is to maintain a happy and healthy competitive environment.

Caps are a barrier to entry. It's specialized knowledge and they're a little expensive for high school and college-aged competitors (when alot of new people get started).

If we are saying that they are safer and simpler, and should be the new standard power source... so be it. We should atleast regulate them similar to any other power source though.

Would you be OK with a rules clarification that equates 500 F of non-battery capacitance (still at 15.5V) equal to a battery? 1000 F?

i dont see why cost should be an issue, they are cheaper than the best battery

wrong jeff its who has the most money and a d5.........lol some would have you beeive this yes




i dont see why cost should be an issue, they are cheaper than the best battery people only read what they want to chad

BMOD0500 is $650 on Mouser. $635 on Digi-Key. $595 on Tecate.
groups of Boostcaps like the Tecate PBM-500 is $799
Individual BCAP3000's are $60-75.

I can buy 4 Optima Red Tops for the price of a large module. If you're talking about the best battery, an NSB-100FT is $300-350.... so...

i bought 28 caps off ebay shipped to my door for $700

keep buying new and spending all your cash man

i bought nsb's new for 225 in kc

This thread is funny. I have tested small banks of caps against your top end batteries. I know the difference.

What did you find?

I guess I got the deal.

I bought 24 of the blue 3000 farad ones with buss bars for $400

Then I got 12 of the 2600 farad ones for 187 and made buss bars for 12 bucks.

Or you can be like fish and get the modules brand new on eBay for 225 each

Nsb's are 350 here

guess you did

chrisbaldelli wrote:

What did you find?

Buy some arnd try it out. A stack of 12 of them is cheaper than a decent group 31 battery.

lol

Where are you guys getting them from? Price at big suppliers is low $60s for a 3000 if you buy 15 or more.

ebay are you guys retarded or what this has been stated many time now

research done for you pick your own



http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=maxwell+ultra+capacitor+&_trksid=p5197.c0.m627

All the caps I got would cost as much as 3-4 XS Power D3100s, do the math. I'm sure people can figure out what the better price to performance ratio would be.