sq advice... width and height

i just went to my first sq event this weekend and the advice i was given by the judge is to try and widen the soundstage a bit along with getting the image a little higher. i sorta noticed this before but not really so brushed it off but after listening again post judging i could definitely see where he's coming from. he said its slightly above the a pillars and slightly wider then the car but needs just a little more. I listened to hotel cali again along with some michael jackson on the way home and noticed this 100%.

any advice on how i would do that?

Pointing my drivers side tweeter up helped a lil bit on some songs but I'm pretty sure I'm lacking some midrange up higher so i may swap tweeters with some larger 2" to get a bit more midrange in the a pillar(which should help the height a bit) but I'm just playing with that idea right now (im still in love with my tweeters so)

width i have no idea.

I'm not familiar with your 360.2 signal processors.

Do they have time delay capabilities?

If so, you might be able to use this feature to enhance your stagewidth.





(9/18 )

I just re-read what the judge told you.

What did he mean by your soundstage being above the A-pillars? That kinda threw me off because everyones A-pillar is to the sides perpendicular to the top of your dashboard.

By rulebook definition, the ideal stage height is at eye level between the top of your dashboard and the bottom of your rearview mirror.




(9/19)

MAGNATUDE wrote:

I'm not familiar with your 360.2 signal processors.

Do they have time delay capabilities?

If so, you might be able to use this feature to enhance your stagewidth.

Yes both the 3sixties and my hu (kenwood ddx812) have time alighnment. ive never used it mainly because im not sure the effects and such. i didnt want to just "mess" with it and hope

MAGNATUDE wrote:

I just re-read what the judge told you.

What did he mean by your soundstage being above the A-pillars? That kinda threw me off because everyones A-pillar is to the sides perpendicular to the top of your dashboard.

By rulebook definition, the ideal stage height is at eye level between the top of your dashboard and the bottom of your rearview mirror.

sorry i just realized that didnt make much sense. He said my stage height is slightly above the dash (basiclly where my tweeters are mounted in the door sail panels) and it would be ideal like you said to raise it 4in or so for eye level. He said the same basic thing about width, he said it sounds slightly wider then the car but ideally it should be wider. I hear exactly what he means by height i just dont really know how to fix it. I was able to hear those 2" i was talking about and i think ill probably end up buying them when funds permit. Width wise i think it sounds about where the doors are

did the judge give you any pointers on how to accomplish what he said you need to accomplish?

nope i didnt really think to ask. stupid me i was nervous about the whole thing

He still shoulda given you something to help besides his opinion.....

It is old school but kickpanels always seem to help my old asss..... What kind of vehicle? And listen to what these guys tell ya for sure... Might get with Mickey, Champion, Sketoe, Pate , Jan the list goes on.

ya this site has a good wealth of awesome sq people

I have a chevy cobalt with door pods and tweeters in the door sail panels (i probably confused magnitude because i always call them a-pillars)

Ok J. Lets get you jumpstarted in setting your stagewidth.

What is the distance (measured in inches) between your listening position and the farthest midrange speaker?

What is the distance between your listening position and the nearest midrange speaker?




(9/20)

We are going to set your driverside timedelay by by first calculating the difference between the farthest and the nearest speaker.

Next, we divide the difference by the speed of sound.

This will give us the time correction value, measured in milliseconds.



Apply this time correction value to the driverside speakers using your processor (because the driverside speaker is too close to your ears).
By delaying the music coming out of the driverside speakers, the time delay value gives you a virtually equal distance between you and both L/R speakers, resulting in having a wider soundstage.

This will be your starting point in fine tuning your stagewidth.
If, later on, you accidentally overcompensate your fine tuning, you can always fall back to the original value.





(9/21)

Judging...eye level is eye level. Just an FYI. Most judges 'use' midway between the mirror and the dash as proper. LOL...but hey, it's become standard.

emperorjj. Got any updates on your speaker measurements?



(9/26)

Nothing drives me more crazy than a judge gettingout of a car and saying something is wrong, but having no clue in the world on how to fix it or even give an suggestion on how to fix it or make it better, and you shouldnt have to ask for that help. if a judge judges your car, he has an obligation to help you. Just my Opinion......

second,,,,, did he say anything about how the Viloin sounded, or if the Sax sounded real or not, did he say if the Cymbals were nice and bright or anything about the tonal aspects of your car? my 3 year old can tell me where a sound sounds like it is coming from... but she doesnt know anything about what instruments sound like...... ok off the soap box.

MAGNATUDE wrote:

emperorjj. Got any updates on your speaker measurements?

ya i did some measurements and all but i wasnt sure if i shoudl start on messing with time delay until i get those ES-02 tweeters in? I ordered them on monday so they should be in soon

Champion wrote:

second,,,,, did he say anything about how the Viloin sounded, or if the Sax sounded real or not, did he say if the Cymbals were nice and bright or anything about the tonal aspects of your car? my 3 year old can tell me where a sound sounds like it is coming from... but she doesnt know anything about what instruments sound like...... ok off the soap box.

nope. mind you i was in intro so.

jsketoe wrote:

Judging...eye level is eye level. Just an FYI. Most judges 'use' midway between the mirror and the dash as proper. LOL...but hey, it's become standard.

havve you heard the story about the woman who was an sq judge/ she was 5ft tall and kept giving all the cars shejudged low scores on stage height because she thought the stage was too high when the played an orchestral trak recorded in a large room? sad part is this actually happened

Typically, if you have to look up to hear the stage there will be other parts of the stage that pull your ears down that will just flat out destroy your score. All about focus.

MAGNATUDE wrote:

emperorjj. Got any updates on your speaker measurements?



(9/26)

i cant find the other thread so here goes, i figured id post up everything and see what happens, the driver side was a very wierd angle to try and measure but i got

midranges: driver 32" pass 45" XO is 400-2500 12db
tweeters: driver 30" pass 48" XO 3500 HP 12db
midbass: driver 27" pass 42" 80-350 12db

I calculated the LEFT side only (Driverside) time correction values for you in milliseconds based on the numbers you provided.

And here are the ideal TCV's assuming each speakers are individually amplified;

Delay for your left tweeter should be....................1.341ms

Delay for your left midrange should be.................0.962ms

Delay for your left midbass should be...................1.107ms




(9/28 )

If you are running all your left speakers in parallel, you can vary the delay value from 0.962ms ~ 1.341ms. Set to taste.

These time correction values simulate the speakers closest to your ears (left) to appear
further out equadistant with the passenger (right) side speakers.

Please let me know your observations before and after you make your adjustments.

Happy tuning



(9/29)

cool will do. quick question thou. i just checked on the 360 software and it has the TA by length not MS (im assuming milliseconds)

also ill be starting the es-02s tomorrow so i think ill try it with TA as is. swap them/ tune then add t/a to get a good idea of the sound differences and all

ok... here are your revised driverside (left) delay by inches or meters:


Tweeter.................18" / 0.46m

Mids......................13" / 0.33m

Midbass.................15" / 0.38m

If your speaker array are wired in parallel, you may adjust your driverside (left) delay from 18" / 0.46m ~ 13" / 0.33m
Set to taste.

Hope this works out for you. I'm just not familiar enough with the 360. But these values should get you the widest stage possible for your Cobalt.



(9/30)

sweet thanks man. ya everything running active so ill be able to adjust each separately