Mobile Audio Competitors Organization

Mobile Audio Competitors Organization

THE LOUDEST SPORT ON EARTH!
 
HomePortalCalendarGalleryFAQSearchRegisterMemberlistUsergroupsLog in
Joint Finals a success. USACI numbers down due to very remote (from USACI) location but better than expected. Results posted on web site.
October 2017
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
      1
2345678
9101112131415
16171819202122
23242526272829
3031     
CalendarCalendar
Latest topics
» THIS OLD FORUM IS ALIVE!!!! 6/14/17
Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:11 pm by 80INCHES

» It's back up !
Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:03 pm by chrisfish

» 2 Atomic apocalypse 12s D4
Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:53 am by supersquirt

» well hello
Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:46 am by TAMU

» WELLLWELLL
Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:24 pm by Nice

» SLAMBOREE AUG 1 & 2
Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:14 pm by Pro_Mom

» July 12th sikeston mo
Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:12 pm by Pro_Mom

» SLAMBOREE AUG 1 & 2
Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:09 pm by Pro_Mom

» Looking to buy a term lab or Audiocontrol RTA
Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:00 am by SPL_300

Top posters
sanman
 
The_Rowlands
 
chrisfish
 
Stingraysevenout
 
scionsoloxb
 
TECH114
 
Alan
 
supadave
 
Moparbass28
 
Navi
 
Statistics
We have 1856 registered users
The newest registered user is thiago9199

Our users have posted a total of 222579 messages in 12663 subjects
Keywords
quad 80inches
Social bookmarking
Social bookmarking Digg  Social bookmarking Delicious  Social bookmarking Reddit  Social bookmarking Stumbleupon  Social bookmarking Slashdot  Social bookmarking Yahoo  Social bookmarking Google  Social bookmarking Blinklist  Social bookmarking Blogmarks  Social bookmarking Technorati  

Bookmark and share the address of United States Autosound Competition International on your social bookmarking website

Bookmark and share the address of Mobile Audio Competitors Organization on your social bookmarking website

Share | 
 

 Bandpasses in Modified classes

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
The Spoiler
Novice Contributor
Novice Contributor


Number of posts : 154
Age : 46
Location : Katy Texas
Registration date : 2012-05-19

PostSubject: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:45 pm

Hey Im new to usaci but I have competed for many years mostly when I lived in Florida I used to run Iasca and DBDrag classes..Since moving back to Texas all I see is ported walls..I know they work but was wondering if there is anyone running a 4th order in the Mod classes??
Back to top Go down
View user profile
chrisfish
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 6521
Age : 48
Location : Silt Colorado
Registration date : 2009-05-16

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:24 pm

Team tiny. In street beat
Back to top Go down
View user profile
The Spoiler
Novice Contributor
Novice Contributor


Number of posts : 154
Age : 46
Location : Katy Texas
Registration date : 2012-05-19

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:12 pm

Ya I should have elaborated more for SPL..
Back to top Go down
View user profile
chrisfish
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 6521
Age : 48
Location : Silt Colorado
Registration date : 2009-05-16

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:27 am

He is street beating a 160 with it. That's splish lol.
Haven't ver remember any at finals in mod.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
chrisbaldelli
Above Average Contributor
Above Average Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 559
Age : 33
Location : Houston, TX
Registration date : 2008-11-30

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:44 am

Just out of curiousity, is there a name for Danny Hays' "box in a box in a box" style?

Quasi-4th order?

I'm sure others have attempted it... but it's pretty innovative (yet simple). Car is relatively sealed. A wall is used to manage the "cab" vs "trunk" dynamics. The sub is placed at the opposite corner to the port.

I guess the theory is to use the sub to generate a local pressure source, and unload safely. The resonance of the rear chamber causes maximum pressure at the port... which resonates the front chamber (Bernoulli flute style).

I'd rock a similar design in mod, but that's just me. Walls have less parameters to juggle (neither is easy to get loud), but I like elegant solutions.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alan
Thats a Lot of Posts!
Thats a Lot of Posts!
avatar

Number of posts : 3897
Age : 37
Location : Watson Louisiana
Registration date : 2008-02-05

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:45 am

Youll see some soon. Beau boran has one. As well as a couple in the works. We atarted one for 0-1 last year but things changed. Definitely go for it
Back to top Go down
View user profile
chrisbaldelli
Above Average Contributor
Above Average Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 559
Age : 33
Location : Houston, TX
Registration date : 2008-11-30

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:27 am

Hmmm. I guess if you wanted to take it 1 step further, you could look at where the losses occur in that type of setup.

My guess is the rear chamber could be re-thought, since the front area is well-defined in the rules. A sealed horn enclosure (basically a Port Wars box) seems like the ideal choice for maximizing woofer control and the energy delivered to the front chamber. Transmission line and various tapped horns would be slightly more efficient, but it would add complexity without the guarantee of cone control.

This train of thought is leading to very expensive ideas (like when I built a CRX shaped shell inside of my RAV4...)

What elements make up the perfect port wars box?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
The Spoiler
Novice Contributor
Novice Contributor


Number of posts : 154
Age : 46
Location : Katy Texas
Registration date : 2012-05-19

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:00 am

I have always used ported walls but Im using a Bandpass now for 2 18s in my 2 door blazer..The shell is huge and practically takes up the whole truck..The design I have I have tried 4 18s but did not work it sounded incredible and had a very wide pass band but sucked on the meter..With the 2 it was right off the bat 3 DB louder than 4...After finals down here going to rebuild the entire truck..
Back to top Go down
View user profile
chapdawg1971
Basic Contributor
Basic Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 322
Age : 46
Location : Killeen, TX
Registration date : 2011-03-08

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:00 pm

So the four failed? Man, it looked promising.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
chrisbaldelli
Above Average Contributor
Above Average Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 559
Age : 33
Location : Houston, TX
Registration date : 2008-11-30

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:52 pm

Found this old thread with some example pictures for 4th and 6th order.

LINK

They suggested that 6th order, with both partitions on the same side may be the loudest. Alot of experience crammed in that thread.

It seems like a relatively small box + lots of room for the front-wave to expand = efficient power transfer to the B-pillar. Obviously, box size should be dictated by woofer excursion limits and minimum impedance rise for amp turn-on. Start small and make it as big as possible.

My main question is how to tune the B-pillar port. Ballpark figures... will be slightly below the cabin gain peak?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
The Spoiler
Novice Contributor
Novice Contributor


Number of posts : 154
Age : 46
Location : Katy Texas
Registration date : 2012-05-19

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:58 pm

chapdawg1971 wrote:
So the four failed? Man, it looked promising.
Ya it was doing a 157 at 30 hertz so it wasnt meter friendly..I have been messing with the 2 subs again and its looking pretty promising..
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Moonie
Advanced Contributor
Advanced Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 1398
Age : 43
Location : Hobbs, New Mexico
Registration date : 2009-02-18

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:35 pm

4th orders are kind of tricky...but once u figure out how to tune them they are easy....i build tons of them...mostly in cut threws....4 10s is one of my favorites....most of them are on lower pwer so only doing mid 150s....as for tinys its 4 15s in a wall...still needs to be tuned but its pretty loud SB 160s and burps 163 on lower power its self.....only down fall to a bandpass that if drops when opening a door...but overall....u need big power and a solid box and alot of time to tune it.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
The Spoiler
Novice Contributor
Novice Contributor


Number of posts : 154
Age : 46
Location : Katy Texas
Registration date : 2012-05-19

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:48 am

When I competed in Iasca Bass boxing it was a 3 round average..First round sealed second 1 door open 3rd round both doors open..The ported walls would do well sealed up and than 1 door open but would lose their ass with both doors open..All the winners in that class all use 4th orders they would maintain their higher avaerage..Here its 1 door open so Im trying to be loud with a bandpass instead of the usual ported wall...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
poundstone
Advanced Contributor
Advanced Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 1900
Age : 35
Location : decatur, il
Registration date : 2010-06-05

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:42 am

i did bassboxiung this year!lol came in second in lightweight with 2 12's.lol but you are right all the middleweight and heavyweight guys run 4th orders who are at the top flat walls fall on their face both doors open but a properly tuned 4th order with keep subs from unloading. moonie you should check out steve mick's van its the nastiest 4th order ive ever seen 161+avg sealed up 30 sec 162+ avg 1 door open and 158 or so both doors open for 3 rounds just nasty and jarod gibsons jeep is not far behind he still falls off a good bit both doors open but is def louder 1 door open. use to be diff when they had blockers but now with no blockers and doors wide open lots of people findin out their setup wasnt as good as they thought.lol
Back to top Go down
View user profile
chrisbaldelli
Above Average Contributor
Above Average Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 559
Age : 33
Location : Houston, TX
Registration date : 2008-11-30

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:43 am

Interesting. Did you ever run across people who tried to tune for both occasions? I would imagine that you'd get some creative designs.

Down the rabbit hole I go:
I like to think about boxes from a "lumped capacitance" perspective. Simplify things, and convert them into a physical system or circuit. Air that never leaves the speaker box is effectively a spring (capacitor). Air that moves through the port is a mass (inductor). Losses such as heat and cancellation are considered dampers (resistors).

SPL boxes are typically smallish, with lots of port, tuned high. In car terms, that's a Mazda RX-7 ... stiffly sprung, low weight, and (given its weight) inefficient. SQ boxes are larger, with modest sized ports, tuned low. That's a Chrysler 300 ... soft springs, heavy, (given it's weight) fairly efficient.

For the Bass Boxing example, you're tuning the bandpass to operate well on the track (sealed) ... then driving a little slower on the street (outlaw). Progressive springs, MR dampers, and adjustable ride height allow cars to be great in both environments.

Similarly, I imagine loading walls are progressive springs. Multiple port tunings (and diameters) are MR dampers. Competition rules don't allow us to modify the setup similar to ride height adjustments.

How well have ABC boxes, 6th order, 8th order, and other multiple-tuning setups succeeded in Bass Boxing?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
poundstone
Advanced Contributor
Advanced Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 1900
Age : 35
Location : decatur, il
Registration date : 2010-06-05

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:44 am

moonie is right on his last parts you def need lots of time and knowledge to get it right i got alot of friends that run them and most of them that are loud now took a good year or so to get it where it is.lol i know steve has rebuilt that van he has so many times he knows everything about it hell even his team does.lol same with jarod has done alot of stuff to that jeep over the years to get it where it is
Back to top Go down
View user profile
poundstone
Advanced Contributor
Advanced Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 1900
Age : 35
Location : decatur, il
Registration date : 2010-06-05

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:47 am

thre are not alot of them man you way over analize stuff.lol all the top guys have 4th orders not many have 6th orders for bassboxing. i know steve plays 3 diff songs for his bb and bb is all 3 rds mic on the dash you just get 1 dr open second rd and 2 dr open 3rd rd. i did sb and bb at finals this year and just ended up using my sb cd because i couldnt find something to work good for bassboxing without modifying my setup for sb which i didnt wanna do at the time
Back to top Go down
View user profile
poundstone
Advanced Contributor
Advanced Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 1900
Age : 35
Location : decatur, il
Registration date : 2010-06-05

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:48 am

basically its all out for the first 2 rounds in all classes then trying not to launch subs in teh final round.lol
Back to top Go down
View user profile
poundstone
Advanced Contributor
Advanced Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 1900
Age : 35
Location : decatur, il
Registration date : 2010-06-05

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:57 am

here are all of micks bb rounds at finals.lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KELLAYoyvWc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDKVATq4vOE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j21-lI_WKeg

and just for fun here is his 142.2 pnp 30 sec avg 6ft outside the window.lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vdtu3OPZcY

and my bb run for fun.lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3ULgJcY5D0

Back to top Go down
View user profile
chrisbaldelli
Above Average Contributor
Above Average Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 559
Age : 33
Location : Houston, TX
Registration date : 2008-11-30

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:09 pm

Good stuff. I'll check the links once I'm out from behind the firewall.

I definitely overanalyze things, but audio is a great outlet for creativity.

Sounds like the track car analogy is right on. Drive your Formula D RX-7 on the track... then an autox... then in rallyx. You'll be buying alot of parts if you don't slow down.

random thought: Progressive spiders on a passive radiator might get the job done... if you have way too much $$ and free time.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
muriloalvares
Novice Contributor
Novice Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 91
Age : 33
Location : Winnipeg
Registration date : 2009-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:54 pm

BP has to be HUGE to reach good efficiency on a wall setup, and once you get there you have the advantage of a 100% "recyclable" setup. You can easily change sub size, quantity, etc.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
poundstone
Advanced Contributor
Advanced Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 1900
Age : 35
Location : decatur, il
Registration date : 2010-06-05

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:22 pm

i know there will be quite a few in usaci this year.lol
Back to top Go down
View user profile
The Spoiler
Novice Contributor
Novice Contributor


Number of posts : 154
Age : 46
Location : Katy Texas
Registration date : 2012-05-19

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:55 pm

muriloalvares wrote:
BP has to be HUGE to reach good efficiency on a wall setup, and once you get there you have the advantage of a 100% "recyclable" setup. You can easily change sub size, quantity, etc.
I agree I love them..
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alan
Thats a Lot of Posts!
Thats a Lot of Posts!
avatar

Number of posts : 3897
Age : 37
Location : Watson Louisiana
Registration date : 2008-02-05

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:01 pm

muriloalvares wrote:
BP has to be HUGE to reach good efficiency on a wall setup, and once you get there you have the advantage of a 100% "recyclable" setup. You can easily change sub size, quantity, etc.

Should be good room in the astro huh?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
muriloalvares
Novice Contributor
Novice Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 91
Age : 33
Location : Winnipeg
Registration date : 2009-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:46 pm

Astro I'd do a floor cut and build as wide and tall as possible. It really has to be huge, you must be able to walk inside the box, sit down and have a coffee.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alan
Thats a Lot of Posts!
Thats a Lot of Posts!
avatar

Number of posts : 3897
Age : 37
Location : Watson Louisiana
Registration date : 2008-02-05

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:07 pm

Well cant cut the floor lol. Id consider beau boran having good luck. Maybe not full bandpass potienta.but decent. 10 incriminator 40.1 and 5 15s was over 170 in.ss 5+ in his toyata. But i figure about 55+ cubes available in the astro. Not quite tall enough to stand though
Back to top Go down
View user profile
poundstone
Advanced Contributor
Advanced Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 1900
Age : 35
Location : decatur, il
Registration date : 2010-06-05

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:10 pm

you drag guys and your floor cuts.lol thats a nono in usaci.lol
Back to top Go down
View user profile
muriloalvares
Novice Contributor
Novice Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 91
Age : 33
Location : Winnipeg
Registration date : 2009-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:11 pm

oh nevermind then, I'd stick to a regular wall.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alan
Thats a Lot of Posts!
Thats a Lot of Posts!
avatar

Number of posts : 3897
Age : 37
Location : Watson Louisiana
Registration date : 2008-02-05

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:54 pm

Hmm. I really figured even though its not the potential of a full floor cut that even the 55+ cubes in an astro would still be better than a wall. Was thinking 6 18s lol
Back to top Go down
View user profile
muriloalvares
Novice Contributor
Novice Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 91
Age : 33
Location : Winnipeg
Registration date : 2009-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:38 pm

has to be wide and tall, the depth isn't really super important (unless you build for music)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Bandpasses in Modified classes   

Back to top Go down
 
Bandpasses in Modified classes
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» 944V8S Modified Moroso 20140 Oil Pans
» ZZP 1.9:1 Ratio Modified Rockers
» RDC Leveling kit Modified!
» Monday Funny: Fall Classes For Women
» WIP: [CRL Dirt Modified] Five Guys #79

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Mobile Audio Competitors Organization :: GENERAL DISCUSSION :: General Discussion :: GENERAL SOUND COMPETITION DISCUSSION-
Jump to: