Mobile Audio Competitors Organization

Mobile Audio Competitors Organization

THE LOUDEST SPORT ON EARTH!
 
HomePortalCalendarGalleryFAQSearchRegisterMemberlistUsergroupsLog in
Joint Finals a success. USACI numbers down due to very remote (from USACI) location but better than expected. Results posted on web site.
December 2017
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031
CalendarCalendar
Latest topics
» THIS OLD FORUM IS ALIVE!!!! 6/14/17
Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:11 pm by 80INCHES

» It's back up !
Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:03 pm by chrisfish

» 2 Atomic apocalypse 12s D4
Wed Feb 24, 2016 12:53 am by supersquirt

» well hello
Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:46 am by TAMU

» WELLLWELLL
Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:24 pm by Nice

» SLAMBOREE AUG 1 & 2
Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:14 pm by Pro_Mom

» July 12th sikeston mo
Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:12 pm by Pro_Mom

» SLAMBOREE AUG 1 & 2
Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:09 pm by Pro_Mom

» Looking to buy a term lab or Audiocontrol RTA
Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:00 am by SPL_300

Top posters
sanman
 
The_Rowlands
 
chrisfish
 
Stingraysevenout
 
scionsoloxb
 
TECH114
 
Alan
 
supadave
 
Moparbass28
 
Navi
 
Statistics
We have 1856 registered users
The newest registered user is thiago9199

Our users have posted a total of 222579 messages in 12663 subjects
Keywords
focal quad 80inches
Social bookmarking
Social bookmarking digg  Social bookmarking delicious  Social bookmarking reddit  Social bookmarking stumbleupon  Social bookmarking slashdot  Social bookmarking yahoo  Social bookmarking google  Social bookmarking blogmarks  Social bookmarking live      

Bookmark and share the address of United States Autosound Competition International on your social bookmarking website

Bookmark and share the address of Mobile Audio Competitors Organization on your social bookmarking website

Share | 
 

 Caps Assistance

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
AuthorMessage
Upzaw2000
Above Average Contributor
Above Average Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 909
Age : 30
Location : Fort Worth Texas
Registration date : 2008-11-03

PostSubject: Caps Assistance   Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:20 pm

First topic message reminder :




Did you guys do this? LOL


Trying out some caps. Wanted to get some assistance on really how to use them safely.

On a 12 and 16v system...

On the 12v are you doing 6 2.2v caps = 13.2v or what is the end voltage to go by. Dont want to over charge or under charge and have issues.
Back to top Go down
View user profile

AuthorMessage
sanman
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 12087
Age : 46
Location : shelbyville
Registration date : 2007-06-23

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:09 pm

im giving you real world comparissons here man
an educated man would have an issue figuring this out as i knew you would, but one with common sence already knows the asnwer
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:10 pm

chrisbaldelli wrote:
You're 100% correct! For burp classes, caps offer a huge advantage vs. batteries. Take the energy output and divide by 5 seconds instead of 30... and you get 6kW per large module.

My chief reason for throwing some numbers up, was to show that it's equally feasible to run caps in street beat if you've got the cash.

With regard to the legality of caps, it's only a matter of time until the Bald Bandit realizes that the rules are being circumvented. Set some records before then!

@ Chad - Sorry to say, but a Battery = Capacitor + slow chemical reaction. Both have an internal resistance and capacitance. Batteries are high capacitance and high internal resistance. The primary difference is discharge rate. The chemical reaction take time and is temperature dependent. When the battery sees a low load impedance, it tries to send more current. Internal resistance generates heat and a voltage drop. When the battery heats up, the internal resistance and reaction rate both go up slightly.

The above setup has the energy storage capacity of roughly 50 alkaline AA batteries or 100 rechargable NiCad AA's. You just can't discharge 50 AAs in 5 seconds

3rd table down

Chris, once again you need to figure out how to do your calculations, you missed something that once you figure it out you will slap yourself in the head.

the discharge rate between a cap and a battery is not a slight diffference, it is a huge difference and that is why the caps are so strong

geoff only has 3857 farad, and not 189,000 farad like in your calculations.

after you realize this, your jaw will drop at how much energy they are producing.
Back to top Go down
muriloalvares
Novice Contributor
Novice Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 91
Age : 34
Location : Winnipeg
Registration date : 2009-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:16 pm

Agree, I shouldn't have replied to you since you were trying to change the focus of the matter, I did because you asked that that is also true.

You can try to change the conversation route and tap yourself on the back as much as you can for that, but that won't change the simple fact that Ultracaps are energy storing devices and are better than batteries for our specific use (SPL). Adding a couple batteries to a bank of ultracaps makes it even better (for that case where you have to do a re run without charging) and there won't be any example proving otherwise.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:17 pm


It's called doing your homework murillo. Researching every part of your build and building it to be it's best, i could just as easily change your quote to this.

muriloalvares wrote:
I'm impressed this have been going on for years! After all who wouldn't want to buy a PANDA and beat who doesn't use them?
Back to top Go down
sanman
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 12087
Age : 46
Location : shelbyville
Registration date : 2007-06-23

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:17 pm

lol its ok man you dont know just admit it
Back to top Go down
View user profile
sanman
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 12087
Age : 46
Location : shelbyville
Registration date : 2007-06-23

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:19 pm

lol thats right chad its ok to do the thing in one way, but not ok to do it in another lol
Back to top Go down
View user profile
sanman
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 12087
Age : 46
Location : shelbyville
Registration date : 2007-06-23

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:22 pm

im going to answer if you you Murillo

ITS THE BUILD

plain and simple there not the same even though in the same type of vehicle one is alot more efficient on batteries than the one on the win all capacitors that your talking Dung Pile on.

the caps obviousely arent everything and this example proves that.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
muriloalvares
Novice Contributor
Novice Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 91
Age : 34
Location : Winnipeg
Registration date : 2009-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:25 pm

kickercrx wrote:
I'm sorry for editing your quote, that is impolite

No problem man. Smile
Back to top Go down
View user profile
muriloalvares
Novice Contributor
Novice Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 91
Age : 34
Location : Winnipeg
Registration date : 2009-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:27 pm

Well, I guess we are done here. The facts are stated, the smart guys are buying Ultracaps because they are smart and know that Ultracaps are ENERGY STORING DEVICES and have little to do with old 1F capacitors, life goes on.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
sanman
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 12087
Age : 46
Location : shelbyville
Registration date : 2007-06-23

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:28 pm

tata
Back to top Go down
View user profile
sanman
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 12087
Age : 46
Location : shelbyville
Registration date : 2007-06-23

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:29 pm

build wins over power man you know this to be fact

i mean you have a 160db car with only 4900 watts lol and all this being leagal on the dash.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
chrisbaldelli
Above Average Contributor
Above Average Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 559
Age : 33
Location : Houston, TX
Registration date : 2008-11-30

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:24 pm

Back of the napkin calculations are rarely perfect, but the power output is

7 BCAP3000's in series. 9 sets paralleled.

Capacitors in series follow the 1/C_total = 1/C_1 + 1/C_2 +... Capacitors in parallel add.

1/C_total = 1/3000+1/3000+...
= 7/3000
C_total = 428.6500 F @ 18.9 V (2.7 per cap)

9 banks = 3857 F @ 18.9 V. We're only allowed 15.5 for stock and SB.

E = 1/2 * C * V^2
= 1/2 * 3857 * 15.5^2
= 463 kJ

Similarly,
E = 1/2 * 3857 * 11.1^2
= 238 kJ

(463-238)/30 seconds = 7.5 kW
(463-238)/5 seconds = 45 kW

No doubt, my capacitance number was wrong. I did a 1*63 array instead of a 7x9 array. The operating voltage was scaled from 18.9 to 2.7 though. Power output is the same.

The point Murilo is making is that a 45kW power source is technically not a battery, but everyone agrees that it does the same job and performs BETTER. Is there any good reason not to regulate this in the rules?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
chrisfish
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 6521
Age : 48
Location : Silt Colorado
Registration date : 2009-05-16

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:32 pm

Everyone plays by the same rules .so-----
Back to top Go down
View user profile
mfivespeed
Basic Contributor
Basic Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 430
Age : 51
Location : iowa
Registration date : 2009-03-08

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:54 pm

sanman wrote:
build wins over power man you know this to be fact

i mean you have a 160db car with only 4900 watts lol and all this being leagal on the dash.

wrong jeff its who has the most money and a d5.........lol
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Upzaw2000
Above Average Contributor
Above Average Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 909
Age : 30
Location : Fort Worth Texas
Registration date : 2008-11-03

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:07 pm

Well this has been an eventful thread....
Back to top Go down
View user profile
chrisbaldelli
Above Average Contributor
Above Average Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 559
Age : 33
Location : Houston, TX
Registration date : 2008-11-30

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:18 pm

@ Chris, you're correct. It's fair competition. But just like the class restructuring you've been discussing, the goal of the rules is to maintain a happy and healthy competitive environment.

Caps are a barrier to entry. It's specialized knowledge and they're a little expensive for high school and college-aged competitors (when alot of new people get started).

If we are saying that they are safer and simpler, and should be the new standard power source... so be it. We should atleast regulate them similar to any other power source though.

Would you be OK with a rules clarification that equates 500 F of non-battery capacitance (still at 15.5V) equal to a battery? 1000 F?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:27 pm

i dont see why cost should be an issue, they are cheaper than the best battery
Back to top Go down
sanman
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 12087
Age : 46
Location : shelbyville
Registration date : 2007-06-23

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:47 pm

wrong jeff its who has the most money and a d5.........lol some would have you beeive this yes




i dont see why cost should be an issue, they are cheaper than the best battery people only read what they want to chad
Back to top Go down
View user profile
chrisbaldelli
Above Average Contributor
Above Average Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 559
Age : 33
Location : Houston, TX
Registration date : 2008-11-30

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:09 pm

BMOD0500 is $650 on Mouser. $635 on Digi-Key. $595 on Tecate.
groups of Boostcaps like the Tecate PBM-500 is $799
Individual BCAP3000's are $60-75.

I can buy 4 Optima Red Tops for the price of a large module. If you're talking about the best battery, an NSB-100FT is $300-350.... so...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
sanman
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 12087
Age : 46
Location : shelbyville
Registration date : 2007-06-23

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:19 pm

i bought 28 caps off ebay shipped to my door for $700

keep buying new and spending all your cash man

i bought nsb's new for 225 in kc
Back to top Go down
View user profile
AudioAnonymous
Above Average Contributor
Above Average Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 736
Age : 41
Location : Titletown
Registration date : 2007-06-22

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:01 pm

This thread is funny. I have tested small banks of caps against your top end batteries. I know the difference. Very Happy
Back to top Go down
View user profile
chrisbaldelli
Above Average Contributor
Above Average Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 559
Age : 33
Location : Houston, TX
Registration date : 2008-11-30

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:28 pm

What did you find?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:08 pm

I guess I got the deal.

I bought 24 of the blue 3000 farad ones with buss bars for $400

Then I got 12 of the 2600 farad ones for 187 and made buss bars for 12 bucks.

Or you can be like fish and get the modules brand new on eBay for 225 each

Nsb's are 350 here
Back to top Go down
sanman
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 12087
Age : 46
Location : shelbyville
Registration date : 2007-06-23

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:30 pm

guess you did
Back to top Go down
View user profile
AudioAnonymous
Above Average Contributor
Above Average Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 736
Age : 41
Location : Titletown
Registration date : 2007-06-22

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:09 pm

chrisbaldelli wrote:
What did you find?

Buy some arnd try it out. A stack of 12 of them is cheaper than a decent group 31 battery.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
sanman
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 12087
Age : 46
Location : shelbyville
Registration date : 2007-06-23

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:11 pm

lol
Back to top Go down
View user profile
muriloalvares
Novice Contributor
Novice Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 91
Age : 34
Location : Winnipeg
Registration date : 2009-04-30

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:12 pm

Where are you guys getting them from? Price at big suppliers is low $60s for a 3000 if you buy 15 or more.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
sanman
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 12087
Age : 46
Location : shelbyville
Registration date : 2007-06-23

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:15 pm

ebay are you guys retarded or what this has been stated many time now
Back to top Go down
View user profile
sanman
I own this joint!
I own this joint!
avatar

Number of posts : 12087
Age : 46
Location : shelbyville
Registration date : 2007-06-23

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:17 pm

Back to top Go down
View user profile
AudioAnonymous
Above Average Contributor
Above Average Contributor
avatar

Number of posts : 736
Age : 41
Location : Titletown
Registration date : 2007-06-22

PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:30 pm

All the caps I got would cost as much as 3-4 XS Power D3100s, do the math. I'm sure people can figure out what the better price to performance ratio would be.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Caps Assistance   

Back to top Go down
 
Caps Assistance
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 4 of 5Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 Similar topics
-
» FS:Nissan Baseball Caps
» Polaris center caps
» Centre caps
» Wheel caps
» Removing mirror caps

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Mobile Audio Competitors Organization :: GENERAL DISCUSSION :: General Discussion :: GENERAL SOUND COMPETITION DISCUSSION-
Jump to: