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Joint Finals a success. USACI numbers down due to very remote (from USACI) location but better than expected. Results posted on web site.
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 PLEASE READ!!

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solo1
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PostSubject: PLEASE READ!!   Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:48 pm

First topic message reminder :

This is a pm I sent to ralph last week, before the other post about changes was even made. Ralph has not read it yet and I also sent it onto a few others in hopes that something may change. Let me just say that this is just my point of view, but from what ive read in the past week or so it seems that alot of competitors or people that would like to compete think something needs to change. Im sure this will get blown way out of text like the other thread but this is just my opinion, take it for what its worth. This is the only post im gonna make,either you agree in some form or fashion or you dont, I dont have time or care to fight and bicker back and forth about changes, this is just one persons point of view.


Ralph,

Id like to take a few minutes of your time to discuss the issues I see with usaci and what can be done to make it better. Let me just start off by saying that I love the outlaw format, this is where myself and alot of my teamates (team sweep) started competing on a national level, but in its current state neither myself or my team really have the desire to run it anymore. Id like you to keep an open mind while reading this and any comparisons, accusations etc. made are not harshly intended but to try and help. I have some really good ideas that could get your manufacturers and comeptitors back.

The #1 reason you have lost competitors and manufactures is the 4 ohm rating. The 4 ohm rating determines what spl class your in. This needed to be changed years ago and no matter what buisness your in you have to stay relavant. The biggest issues with it are you have probably 75% or more of your competitors using the same amplifier from a small company that probably doesnt even sponsor usaci. The rest of them are sponsored by db drive and run unlimited or run street beat. Their maybe another company that does ok like b2 audio that just really started hitting the scene but for the most part all the competitors are using an rd audio d5 in the lower power classes and pretty much all of them have been won with the same amp for the last 3 years or so. Now why would any big name car audio company sponsor usaci when nobody is using their equipment. Then on the other hand why would someone want to compete in usaci if they have to go buy an $800+ amp of this certain brand just to be competitve in the lowest class available. The main reason for the loss of competitors is cost. Just to be competitve in lowest class,stock 0-600 it would cost $5k plus if your just starting out. Then another factor is, why would a manufacter want to help a competitor for a organization that they dont sponsor or they would have no chance of winning because of the 4 ohm rating. The fact is the companies that are winning dont have to sponsor people because everyone needs that particular amp to win so theyll pay for it.

Another issue is everyone using these supercaps in place of batteries. The rules say unlimited amount of caps which should mean car audio caps xx farad. But people have took it to the extreme and are using banks of 2.5v supercaps in place of batteries. Fact is a bank of these are stronger than a battery and alot of poeple are running like 3-4 banks in the lowest classes. So with the battery limit being 2, they are basically using 4. Something should be done about this, its not what the rule is intended for. And also why would a battery company want to sponsor usaci when nobody is competing with their batteries.

What I purpose should be done, and competitors have been begging for it for years is get rid of the 4ohm rating system and make the classes determined by the highest rms rating of the amplifier. That way you can have amps that are competitve with each other no matter what ohm their rated at. For instance look at kicker, all their amps are rated at 2 ohm, why would anyone want to compete with their amps in usaci, when they can fit 2 or 3 amps of the same power in the same class, just doesnt make much sence. You should have close to the same power in each class no matter what brand of amp you use. Thats not the case at all as of now. You can also lower the cost of competing by doing this. You can say have the lowest class 0-3000watts with a limit of 2 amps. Just about every company out there has a 1500 and 3000watt amp. Something like this will give a much wider range of manufacturers as well. I mean look at MWSPL theyve gotten huge and Id be willing to bet thier finals has a higher attendance than usaci this year. Heres why. Its way more cost affective for the competitor and manufacturers are sposoring them because people are using a wide variety of equipment. Also their finals is free and they have a payout. Like it or not they have something figured out.

Another thing is why did you ever get rid of basic stock? It did really well and gave amatuers a chance to compete on a national level. To keep thriving you have to get new people in the door at finals. As of now nobody wants to start out knowing they are going to finals to lose to a 160 in the lowest spl class. It takes years and alot of money to get to the point that most people in stock classes are at. Why would a amatuer want to compete against a 5+ year veteran?

Heres kinda what I was thinking in class devolpment, Its just off the top of my head and may need tweaked but its a start. I think something like this would work well and Ive talked to other teammates and competitors that think its a good idea as well. I also think that the street beat classes should have a power cap as well, they have gotten way out of hand when the lowest class with 2 tens and 20k power does 158-159s. Anyway I hope some of this was helpful, Id really love to see Usaci thrive again and get teamsweep and other competitors back in the lanes!

MAX RMS AMP RATINGS

AMATUER STOCK/ 15.5V MAX
Amatuer stock 0-1500 watts/ 1 battery/ 1 amp
Amatuer stock 0-3000 watts/ 2 batteries/ 2 amps

STOCK/15.5v MAX
Stock 0-3000 watts/2 batteries/ 2 amps
Stock 3000-6000watts/3 batteries/ 4 amps
Stock 6000-12,000 watts/6 batteries/ 6 amps

PRO STOCK/18v MAX
Pro stock 0-6000 watts/3 batteries/ 4 amps
Pro stock 6000-12,000 watts/6 batteries/ 6 amps
Pro stock unlimited

MODIFIED/18V MAX
Modified 0-10,000 watts/6 batteries/ 4 amps
Modified 10,000-20,000 watts/12 batteries/ 8 amps
Modified unlimited

SUPER MODIFIED/18V MAX
Super modified 0-20,000 watts/unlimited/ 8 amps
Super modified unlimited
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Alan
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:41 pm

im never believing moonies numbers were with a dc3k over a d5.. ever.
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Moparbass28
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:43 pm

Alan wrote:
sanman wrote:
i won ad3 a few years ago

6 d9's $5400
3 rd 15's $1200
24 kenetick batts $3000
truck/box/alt etc etc $5000

thats dam near $15k

Is adv3 a new competitor class?

Nope, this is one of the highest classes there is. Most money spent. So that can't be used as an example if you ask me.

That is all.
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sanman
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:43 pm

noone believed tiny had the numbers they showed but they did
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:45 pm

sanman wrote:
noone believed tiny had the numbers they showed but they did
numbers with proven eqpt is different. im not questioning the scores. im questioning the fact is was a amp that d5 hurts its feelings
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sanman
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:46 pm

so we are looking for a class for welfare check people to get into is that what im getting here

or the many drunks that enhabit the lanes

or pot heads

or more money for the guys that just come to finals to step out on there old ladies and spend all weekend in the strip clubs.

lord forbid you have to spend that money on the reason we actually attend finals.



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sanman
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:47 pm

more power isnt always everything this means an efficient build one of the things that hasnt been mentioned on either post "build"

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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:58 pm

When it comes down to it - isn't every organization using a TermLab to conduct their competitions? Don't we all use amplifiers and woofers to produce SPL? At some level we're all 'copying' something someone else is doing...

Now let's be real, no one is saying USACi should just duplicate whats already been done - I'm just saying look at whats 'working' in terms of power classification... How would that infringe on the things that still make USACi unique?

Look at dbDrag - they choose to clamp some of their classes (granted with a completely different meter), and I don't see them getting much flak about it... whats the big deal?



sanman wrote:
One of the main problems Nate is that people don't want to be just a copy of another organization. If everything was changed over to clamped power, it would almost be a direct copy of MWSPL.

thank you someone finally understand it


who says the b2 is the newest baddest amp for 0-500

im pretty sure the guy with the highest score in this class uses a dc audio amp


and yes to be differant clamp the DCA draw lets not just take ACV+ACA and decide off that this is the only thing left to use to be differant because noone really does it.
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Alan
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:58 pm

sanman wrote:
so we are looking for a class for welfare check people to get into is that what im getting here

or the many drunks that enhabit the lanes

or pot heads

or more money for the guys that just come to finals to step out on there old ladies and spend all weekend in the strip clubs.

lord forbid you have to spend that money on the reason we actually attend finals.




so everyone that cant afford a 5-6k$ setup is a drunk or pot head or on welfare? wtf is wrong with you dude.. your attitude is 100% horrible to help usaci in anyway man. its sad , all the new people im refering to come here and join the conversation..read this crap.. then they put 2 in 2 together that your the verifcation judge at finals. you would think being as you play the role as a usaci official and usaci kinda lets you ,that you would step up and have some Professionalism when you talk on here..
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:59 pm

sanman wrote:
more power isnt always everything this means an efficient build one of the things that hasnt been mentioned on either post "build"


so your coming to 0-600 with a db drive pd 2000? you listed that as a competitive 500w amp. and power isnt everything ya know?
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:26 pm

no i spend my money not the mass perceptions on a forum so it will not be a pd2000, nor will it be a d5


im not an official i never claim to be your the one assuming that Dung Pile


did taylor show up with a pd2000 nope he didnt he came with a b2 0.5 the new hotness and power isnt everything or he would have been over 161
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Alan
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:29 pm

Dont argue what Taylor does with me lol. Thats not my baby there
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:33 pm

but he isn in a class and with the newest baddest thing out man

im going to take an older amp and show you it doesnt take a d5


then you wont have Dung Pile to say about power anymore
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sanman
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:35 pm

oh great savior of USACI (ALAN HALL) please tell us hwo all your thoughts and ideas are going to save this orginization lol
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Alan
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:47 pm

Im trying man. Thats all im trying to do. Prick.
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Alan
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:48 pm

And it seems to be the ideas of a ton more people than me man.
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Upzaw2000
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:51 pm

this whole forum would be a waste if it wasnt for you two...


that and fish's thousands of builds
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:54 pm

Alan has been drawing quite a bit of attention to this topic/discussion in-and-outside of the USACi forums. He never proclaimed to be the savior - he only asked for help and input from supporters.

Why you continue to attack him and detract from the discussion at hand is your prerogative - but if you could focus half the time and energy you spend going after him (and others) on improving morale in the community - and being a good competitor role model, perhaps things wouldn't be looking so grim.

sanman wrote:
oh great savior of USACI (ALAN HALL) please tell us hwo all your thoughts and ideas are going to save this orginization lol
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:57 pm

smaller classes like
0-150 stock 1 amp
151-500 stock 2 amps
501-1000 stock 3 amps
1000+ unlimited

Gives room for the smaller amps that a dealer sells or best buy sells the ability to play.
Limit batts, caps and mods. no walls,
12volts. no 15.5 volts.
go back to basics.

Wanna attract big systems them make a mod class with both 12 volts and 18 volts.

Yes its more classes or trophys, but now days, we can print stickers on awards and USACI has no problem using the same thropys every year.
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:58 pm

lol! cheers Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:08 pm

me and tiny have something in common in fact i had to tell rob and jimbo this a long time ago

im not here for respect, and i dont car eif you like me point blank


as soon as i read this post i knew exactly what was happening a few of you guys got togather and talked about all of this and wanted your ideas to be the only way it is. who the fornicate are yall to even think your ideas are the right ones.so what you do is target an audience that has had nothing more than a shitty showing in usaci and get them behind you well thats pretty smart actually i applaud you for that. i said it before ill rpobly have to say it a 1000 more times you can handicap it any ay you want it the experience guys on top willing to spend money to find what works will always be on top point blank and there aint Dung Pile you can do about that
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:13 pm

Your 100% wrong.. no one talked.


And your 100% right in the later part.. but.. that dont mean there shouldn't be new classes for new blood to get beat around man.


Last edited by Alan on Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:15 pm

ok just a band of brothers then huh


tell ya what start your own org and see how it does if these are the things that needs to be done to make competitors happy

call it LBP
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:16 pm

Steve benton used that advice. Just sayin.
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:18 pm

You ALWAYS resort to that if its not what sanman says then go to another org or dont compete. Your an idiot. Because thats exactly what people will do. You think we couldn't host drag or iasca shows here man? Easy. But thats not what i want. Id like usaci to work.
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:21 pm

IF YOU DONT LIKE WHATS GOING ON WHY DO YOU STAY


PEOPLE SCREEMED FOR SB WELL THEY GOT IT THEN THEY REALIZED THEY WOULDNT WIN SO THEY LEFT

PEOPLE WANTED TRUNK IT WAS OK NOW IT SUX ALSO

BRING YOUR NEW CLASSES WHEN PEOPLE DONT WIN TITLES THEY WILL CRY LIKE LITTLE BITCHES AND LEAVE INSTEAD OF STICKING AROUND AND LEARNING
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:30 pm

So your answer is just continue to be a dickhead and chugging along with 20 competitors at finals. Good work
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:33 pm

Sit around and tell people how stupid their thoughts are while your offering jack shiit
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:41 pm

ILL SEND YOU A DOLLAR TO GET STARTED MAN

WHATS THE ADRESS


stop trying to make this like MWSPL if people like that then they need to go there and they can run both orgs since the finals isnt stacked on top of one another.


a failure is a failure and no matter how much you try to bend things to make it to where they are competitive they will not be because there is always someone ready to jump in and take them out.


this is why i suggested what i did and well yall didnt like it oh well
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:48 pm

Ok jeff. Ok. So fuckinng exhausting arguing with somebody who's 90 percent retarded
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PostSubject: Re: PLEASE READ!!   Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:51 pm

sanman wrote:
. i said it before ill rpobly have to say it a 1000 more times you can handicap it any ay you want it the experience guys on top willing to spend money to find what works will always be on top point blank and there aint Dung Pile you can do about that

I have to disagree with this. Why you ask. Look at danny britian in a 500 watt class and the car equip used.
Also look at kevin tew in a 1k class what equip and such used.

Didn't take alot of money to get where they are, and to add. Kevin is still fairly new to the sport. Granted Danny isn't, but we all know that. Equip was the focus of that sentence.

That is all
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