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Matt_Sibley
Pro Contributor
Age : 23
Joined : 25 Jun 2007
Posts : 557
: Baton Rouge, LA
|  Subject: Re: Here is the question!!!  Mon May 05, 2008 10:46 pm | |
| I agree with you, if the judging team was sufficiently staffed so that a meter could be on each car for the ENTIRE run and for EVERY run the problem is solved. The manner you were using the batteries in should be allowed. Some of the stock cars were using a 16volt battery to charge a capacitor bank, I asked that the 16 volt battery be removed because it acted as a charging device in the vehicle. I will relay these things to the competitor committee and we will try to forward something to Ralph and hope to clarify these things....
_________________
Matt Sibley, BSEE, EIT
Team S.P.E.A.D. Founder, Co-Captain
Team Kicker
Team Maxxsonics |
|   | | kickercrx
Expert Contributor
Age : 99
Joined : 24 Jun 2007
Posts : 1148
: Crxville
| | Subject: Re: Here is the question!!! Mon May 05, 2008 11:56 pm | |
| ok ok we know, voltage cannot go above 14.7v, which u did not, weather or not you used the 16v side i dont know so i will belive you and say you didn't
now moving on to this year what sould we expect? my take on the rules, and i am not a judge, but have a good understanding of the rules, no part of the system can go above 14.7v like you said before, well if the 16v are in the vehicle, even if the 16v side is not used, it is in fact still part of the system that is inside the vehicle and if you hooked a volt meter up to it, it would in fact read above 16v, even if it's not being used, it is still inside the car, part of the system, and above the 14.7 limit, is it not?
this is what the rules say specifically
"SB5 is the only class open to any vehicles that use a system voltage higher than 14.7 maximum or utilize multiple alternators."
now i guess it is up to what the judge interprets "system voltage" to mean so i will ask this for you judges out there
is "system voltage" what the the amps, headunits, etc directly recieving, or in this case, bateries more specific, is it what the can put out if the 16v side was used
now back to what i have brought up before, and again, i am not saying this is what was done, just simply saying what could be done with some very basic things.
you could take and hook up 12 - 12v batteries in parrallel, and you have 12v, and you could take 12 of the 12/16 hybrid batteries and hook up all those 12v post. right there you have a strong 12v system.
now if you hooked up 12 -12v and 12 -16v of same cca and capacitence and put a relay between the 12 and 16v post from the 2 banks, a person could start his steetbeat run, after the initial voltage drop, say to 11.5v or whatever, they could open up the 16v side and it would boost the voltage back up to probably around 13.5 and stay pretty steady, then before turning off the amps, close the 16v side and turn off the music and you would have not exceeded 14.7 volts, yet had the advantage of a 16v system witout going over 14.7
now for everyday shows you wouldnt see something like this, but a show like finals it could happen, and if you say well yes this is possible but it didnt go over 14.7, that would be true, but that just takes you back to the definition of "system voltage"
is system voltage what the amplifiers are reciveing, or is "system voltage" defined as what the batteries are capable of putting out if the 16v side is used
my take on it is, even if the 16v side is not being used, it is still over 14.7 and part of the system and thus shouldnt be allowed, but thats just me, i am not a judge, just a competitor
_________________
Chad Stoulil
S.W.A.T. Team/Street Beatz
2x World Champion
3x World Record Holder
2x Runner up
2008 GOAL - Become top 10 post whore
69x 1st Place Champion
TEAM PIE - Pound it hard or go home |
| | | | slumpinhonda
Expert Contributor
Age : 22
Joined : 23 Jun 2007
Posts : 2010
: BFE Nebraska
| | Subject: Re: Here is the question!!! Tue May 06, 2008 12:37 am | |
| chad and his damn books! lol
_________________
Tim Dougherty
S.W.A.T. Team
Street Beatz
Team Revolution
WR stock 3001+ 155.1
WR Stock 1801-3K 156.9
2007 WF 160.9
2008 Stock 0-600, 601-1800, 1801-3k, and 3K+
BUCKET FOR 08!
TEAM PIE GOTTA EAT YA SOME |
| | | | Matt_Sibley
Pro Contributor
Age : 23
Joined : 25 Jun 2007
Posts : 557
: Baton Rouge, LA
| | Subject: Re: Here is the question!!! Tue May 06, 2008 12:49 am | |
| | kickercrx wrote: | ok ok we know, voltage cannot go above 14.7v, which u did not, weather or not you used the 16v side i dont know so i will belive you and say you didn't
now moving on to this year what sould we expect? my take on the rules, and i am not a judge, but have a good understanding of the rules, no part of the system can go above 14.7v like you said before, well if the 16v are in the vehicle, even if the 16v side is not used, it is in fact still part of the system that is inside the vehicle and if you hooked a volt meter up to it, it would in fact read above 16v, even if it's not being used, it is still inside the car, part of the system, and above the 14.7 limit, is it not?
this is what the rules say specifically
"SB5 is the only class open to any vehicles that use a system voltage higher than 14.7 maximum or utilize multiple alternators."
now i guess it is up to what the judge interprets "system voltage" to mean so i will ask this for you judges out there
is "system voltage" what the the amps, headunits, etc directly recieving, or in this case, bateries more specific, is it what the can put out if the 16v side was used
now back to what i have brought up before, and again, i am not saying this is what was done, just simply saying what could be done with some very basic things.
you could take and hook up 12 - 12v batteries in parrallel, and you have 12v, and you could take 12 of the 12/16 hybrid batteries and hook up all those 12v post. right there you have a strong 12v system.
now if you hooked up 12 -12v and 12 -16v of same cca and capacitence and put a relay between the 12 and 16v post from the 2 banks, a person could start his steetbeat run, after the initial voltage drop, say to 11.5v or whatever, they could open up the 16v side and it would boost the voltage back up to probably around 13.5 and stay pretty steady, then before turning off the amps, close the 16v side and turn off the music and you would have not exceeded 14.7 volts, yet had the advantage of a 16v system witout going over 14.7
now for everyday shows you wouldnt see something like this, but a show like finals it could happen, and if you say well yes this is possible but it didnt go over 14.7, that would be true, but that just takes you back to the definition of "system voltage"
is system voltage what the amplifiers are reciveing, or is "system voltage" defined as what the batteries are capable of putting out if the 16v side is used
my take on it is, even if the 16v side is not being used, it is still over 14.7 and part of the system and thus shouldnt be allowed, but thats just me, i am not a judge, just a competitor |
I guess we could have two meters on the car, one on peak hold, the other on a continuous readout and any sudden spike in voltage would be reason enough to further inspect the vehicle? Lay out ideas, not accusations and I will present these and discuss with the competitor committee. I have already started a post under our part of the forum bringing these issues to the attention of the committee.
_________________
Matt Sibley, BSEE, EIT
Team S.P.E.A.D. Founder, Co-Captain
Team Kicker
Team Maxxsonics |
| | | | Treo Truck
Novice Contributor
Age : 31
Joined : 14 Aug 2007
Posts : 89
: Omaha NE
| | Subject: Re: Here is the question!!! Tue May 06, 2008 4:16 pm | |
| | Matt_Sibley wrote: | | kickercrx wrote: | ok ok we know, voltage cannot go above 14.7v, which u did not, weather or not you used the 16v side i dont know so i will belive you and say you didn't
now moving on to this year what sould we expect? my take on the rules, and i am not a judge, but have a good understanding of the rules, no part of the system can go above 14.7v like you said before, well if the 16v are in the vehicle, even if the 16v side is not used, it is in fact still part of the system that is inside the vehicle and if you hooked a volt meter up to it, it would in fact read above 16v, even if it's not being used, it is still inside the car, part of the system, and above the 14.7 limit, is it not?
this is what the rules say specifically
"SB5 is the only class open to any vehicles that use a system voltage higher than 14.7 maximum or utilize multiple alternators."
now i guess it is up to what the judge interprets "system voltage" to mean so i will ask this for you judges out there
is "system voltage" what the the amps, headunits, etc directly recieving, or in this case, bateries more specific, is it what the can put out if the 16v side was used
now back to what i have brought up before, and again, i am not saying this is what was done, just simply saying what could be done with some very basic things.
you could take and hook up 12 - 12v batteries in parrallel, and you have 12v, and you could take 12 of the 12/16 hybrid batteries and hook up all those 12v post. right there you have a strong 12v system.
now if you hooked up 12 -12v and 12 -16v of same cca and capacitence and put a relay between the 12 and 16v post from the 2 banks, a person could start his steetbeat run, after the initial voltage drop, say to 11.5v or whatever, they could open up the 16v side and it would boost the voltage back up to probably around 13.5 and stay pretty steady, then before turning off the amps, close the 16v side and turn off the music and you would have not exceeded 14.7 volts, yet had the advantage of a 16v system witout going over 14.7
now for everyday shows you wouldnt see something like this, but a show like finals it could happen, and if you say well yes this is possible but it didnt go over 14.7, that would be true, but that just takes you back to the definition of "system voltage"
is system voltage what the amplifiers are reciveing, or is "system voltage" defined as what the batteries are capable of putting out if the 16v side is used
my take on it is, even if the 16v side is not being used, it is still over 14.7 and part of the system and thus shouldnt be allowed, but thats just me, i am not a judge, just a competitor |
I guess we could have two meters on the car, one on peak hold, the other on a continuous readout and any sudden spike in voltage would be reason enough to further inspect the vehicle? Lay out ideas, not accusations and I will present these and discuss with the competitor committee. I have already started a post under our part of the forum bringing these issues to the attention of the committee. |
I would agree to the above proposed no problem...I think that is a good idea.
_________________
TEAM TREO
TEAM METRO AUDIO DYNAMICS
2007 SB3 World Champ |
| | | | slumpinhonda
Expert Contributor
Age : 22
Joined : 23 Jun 2007
Posts : 2010
: BFE Nebraska
| | Subject: Re: Here is the question!!! Tue May 06, 2008 6:12 pm | |
| well if you are actually playin music with a beat this year wouldnt there be sudden spikes in voltage in between beats? i mean car is running and all
_________________
Tim Dougherty
S.W.A.T. Team
Street Beatz
Team Revolution
WR stock 3001+ 155.1
WR Stock 1801-3K 156.9
2007 WF 160.9
2008 Stock 0-600, 601-1800, 1801-3k, and 3K+
BUCKET FOR 08!
TEAM PIE GOTTA EAT YA SOME |
| | | | thegreatwhitehype
Basic Contributor
Joined : 28 Apr 2008
Posts : 29
| | Subject: Re: Here is the question!!! Tue May 06, 2008 6:18 pm | |
| | all we really want is to know now if it will be allowed at finals. bye the way treo truck i appoligize if u took what i was saying as an acusation of cheating. u meerly utilized a loop hole in the rules in your favor. I fact i think it was shear genius. but i also would like the playing feild to be level so if i lose to someone, i can say yes he is the better man and shake his hand knowing that we were held to the same build condition. |
| | | | Treo Truck
Novice Contributor
Age : 31
Joined : 14 Aug 2007
Posts : 89
: Omaha NE
| | Subject: Re: Here is the question!!! Tue May 06, 2008 9:53 pm | |
| I dont really know if I would call it a loop hole as much as a gray area...but we are entited to an opinion. I would like some definition on it also so I know if I can play in th class this year as my daily setup is in and staying in competitive enought to repeat a good showing or not. I simply dont have the time wit hother projects going besides my truck, work and family...proably wont be a real familiar face if things dont calm down a bit at work.
Tim makes a good point music will create spikes....but who will define music? Some songs have tones...I wish a disc would come out if they are going to make the changes to make all fields level...but I dont disagree that people dont want to be told what to play either...touchy subject in many ways.
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TEAM TREO
TEAM METRO AUDIO DYNAMICS
2007 SB3 World Champ |
| | | | super stock crx
Expert Contributor
Age : 23
Joined : 24 Jun 2007
Posts : 1835
: LTX
| | Subject: Re: Here is the question!!! Tue May 06, 2008 10:06 pm | |
| i like pizza
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IN LOVING MEMORY OF CESAR "BASSHEAD" CHAPA
ILL MISS U BRO
TEAM TEXAS, TEAM KINETIK, TEAM STETSOM
3001+OUTLAW WORLD RECORD HOLDER
07 WF 3001+ 2ND PLACE
www.myspace.com/Daryal04
158.4 DB CLUB |
| | | | slumpinhonda
Expert Contributor
Age : 22
Joined : 23 Jun 2007
Posts : 2010
: BFE Nebraska
| | Subject: Re: Here is the question!!! Wed May 07, 2008 2:58 am | |
| jeremy just put your truck back the way it was before finals.....it was just straight up nasty nasty loud
_________________
Tim Dougherty
S.W.A.T. Team
Street Beatz
Team Revolution
WR stock 3001+ 155.1
WR Stock 1801-3K 156.9
2007 WF 160.9
2008 Stock 0-600, 601-1800, 1801-3k, and 3K+
BUCKET FOR 08!
TEAM PIE GOTTA EAT YA SOME |
| | | | Treo Truck
Novice Contributor
Age : 31
Joined : 14 Aug 2007
Posts : 89
: Omaha NE
| | Subject: Re: Here is the question!!! Thu May 08, 2008 9:08 am | |
| it is at that state now Tim back to normal just some dress ups....just got to get it all put back together...proably wont make the Digz as I am supposed to be in Texas but now my father in law is super sick so who knows...
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TEAM METRO AUDIO DYNAMICS
2007 SB3 World Champ |
| | | | John Payton
Advanced Contributor
Joined : 25 Jun 2007
Posts : 391
: Huron, SD
| | Subject: Re: Here is the question!!! Thu May 08, 2008 8:00 pm | |
| i have one question, and Chad im not trying to slam you. how hard is it really to look at the batteries and ensure they are bussed on the 12volt posts, the judge could do it right before the run, hell i just walked out to my garage flipped my cover up on the bed of my truck and saw how all 20 of my 3 post batteries were hooked up took me under a minute if there was anything shady about the way the 2 positives were hooked up relay or not you would see it. also what kind of relays will pass the much current?
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